Fun fact, a group I knew in uni made an end to end encryption program that sent messages through Google more than a decade ago and Google got really, really mad at them threatening to shut down all Google accounts associated with all IP addresses they used.
Guarantee it's not fully E2E.
It's E2E, E2E isn't really something you can be sneaky about unless you roll your own encryption and then make claims about it totally being safe bro
They, however, run the app you are using to type everything, the keyboard you are using to type everything and the os you are using to type everything. If they want something, they don't need to look at your in flight messages.
The trust doesn't even have to be in the encryption, they could very well use the same signal protocol. They would only need a copy of the keys you are using and you wouldn't even know... That's the problem with closed source programs, there is no certainty that its not happening (and I'm not saying it is, I can't prove it, obviously, but the doubt remains, we need to trust these companies not to screw us over and they don't really have the best track record in that...)
They can... everything is closed there. It can just be "encrypted" for your eyes
It’s E2E, E2E isn’t really something you can be sneaky about unless you roll your own encryption and then make claims about it totally being safe bro
With a closed source app? Of course you can. How is anyone supposed to know what keys you use for encryption? Doesn't even need to be a remote one - just the key generation be reproducible by the developer.
Sent messages "through Google"? Like Chat? Email? That's such an ambiguous statement.
E2EE has been a available approaching three years now. I'd imagine if they were lying and defrauding the population, someone would have found out by now. This announcement is just that it's on by default for everyone.
Hangouts.
It doesn't matter if it's E2E or not when Google can spy on you directly on the phones at either end.
Reminds me how much I hate Apple.
Thanks Google for making Android.
Now please turn the evil knob down a notch and go back being the awesome company you once were.
Edit: typo
The fuck does this have to do with Apple?
Apple purposely will not integrate this to keep a walled garden around their ecosystem and make messaging between apole/Android a shit experience.
In a perfect world everyone would just adopt rcs, it's better for consumers but Apple only gives a shit about branding/$$$.
The one thing that feels off to me about Google’s implementation is that it’s not vendor agnostic and all comms would need to go through Google’s servers to work. The E2EE bit is an entirely Google specific extension to RCS, for example. The last thing we need is another chromium situation in a different area.
If it wasn’t a Google specific extension, phone networks around the world would need to pick up the pace and adopt RCS, but also they’d need to keep up to date with the latest version of the standard to ensure the functionality is supported. Now, looking at phone networks’ previous track record, they’re really not going to implement it unless they’re forced to and they’ll do so at a real snails pace.
At this point I’d agree that Apple not adopting RCS is really not helpful here.
I feel the EU’s Digital Market Act that’s forcing messenger applications to be interoperable with each other is going to be a much more viable option towards that perfect world scenario. The IETF is even fleshing out a common protocol for it, MIMI with MLS.
I feel like Google has everything to gain and apple has more to lose by implementing this. It's not good guy Google, bad guy Apple. It's a business decision. I say this as an Apple hater.
If the shoe was on the other foot Google would be doing the same thing.
Google tracks you everywhere you go all over the internet. Like 90% of websites have a script that calls home to Google to let them know you visited. That’s their business model.
Now, open up the RCS API to third party texting apps... Like you said you would many years ago
Yes! I'd love to go back to using Signal as my main messaging app.
Using Signal since a few years. Don’t know anything about security but from a user perspective, I can highly recommend it. Takes some time converting your friends but after that it does its thing.
In my experience some friends are unconvertable, and at that point group chats with those friends just end up in the same place as before.
Yeah, that’s entirely possible; I have some friends unwilling to convert (or that I haven’t bothered with). I do however note an increase in use in Sweden, so I’m still hopeful. Best converter would of course be major screw up from WhatsApp etc. which may or may not happen, but then I’ll be ready to bang the drums again :)
To my knowledge, Signal is the only verifiably secure encrypted messaging app that's market ready. Signal is fully open source, including its encryption algorithm which has been tested numerous times and even gotten government agencies like the FBI all butthurt that can't break it or get a backdoor from the devs. I have a friend whose cryptography professor contributed to the project.
It was only in recent years that Signal upped their game enough with the user experience for me to start recommending it to friends and family. In 2013, when I first recall trying it out, Signal was more clunky and always wanted to be your default SMS app. I didn't like that, because at the time they didn't have a client to send messages from your computer.
Nowadays they have an desktop app that syncs with your phone, video calling, and even stories – which some people find weird but I'm all for non-Zuccubus owned private and secure alternatives to social media. I'm pretty sure anyone on Lemmy would love to pull more power away from these surveillance based ad companies and stop being data cows.
Tl;dr: Fuck the Zuck, keep promoting Signal, democratize the internet
But that doesn't help with sms or rcs. I wish there was an rcs client that was not made by Google
As far as I know Google doesn't allow third party apps to plug into RCS.
This is why them bashing Apple for this particular issue always seemed hypocritical to me, they want this to be their own closed ecosystem, with Apple being the exception because they have enough clout to actually go it alone or even take users away from Android.
Ideally you'd have apps like Signal plugging into the same end-to-end encryption for interoperability, but Google won't allow that because they just want people to use Google Messages for RCS, and nothing else.
Kinda wary to switch in case it turns up in the Google Graveyard.
Fortunately I think this is one of the ones that will stay around.
Definitely happy that this is happening, good on them. However in practice since most of my friends are on iOS I'm still reduced to SMS/MMS and a terrible user experience
But everything still kept in their cloud right?
As an Apple owner I hope Apple will implement this too. I live in a country where everybody communicates through WhatsApp unfortunately.
What do you mean? iMessage is fully end to end encrypted.
As far as google messages RCS goes, that’s googles proprietary version of RCS.
I think they might mean they wish Apple would support RCS in general (which Apple has been refusing to do)
iMessage is not fully E2E encrypted unless you have advanced data protection turned on. If you don’t, the keys to your conversations still rest on Apple’s servers.
That’s untrue. The keys are generated on your device and Apple doesn’t have those stored. You need apple devices to grant access for another device as Apple doesn’t have your key. There’s other security holes where apple can generate new keys but that doesn’t change the fact that it is actually E2E encrypted.
I don’t think it’s true as long as you don’t make iCloud Backups
This is the correct answer.
I think it's a good move. Carriers are decentralized by design, af if they were not greedy and stupid, they could come up with at least one decent messaging. RCS is good by they did not make e2e mandatory in the protocol.
The fuck is google messages? Is this what replaced hangouts?
Hilarious assumption, but nope. It’s just the default sms app on google phones.
Google Chat replaced hangouts and is not E2E.
Google Messages is the Android default SMS App, at least on Pixel phones. It is Android's best equivalent to "iMessage"
You bet it's end to end and encrypted with my key and your key and our friends key the CIA's key... Wait, what?
/s... I hope
This is cool and all but one feature I'd love to see is search functionality actually working
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
