this post was submitted on 10 Mar 2025
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Is anyone here aware of some alternatives to mentioned instant messaging applications ? Alot of people keep mentioning Signal , however since it is US based I am not going to entertain it as a possibility.

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[โ€“] doodledup@lemmy.world 35 points 1 month ago (3 children)

Why does it matter that Signal is US based? They don't get any of your data. And you don't have to donate if you don't want to.

[โ€“] ThatOneSin@lemmy.world 25 points 1 month ago

I agree. If anything, Signal was made to circumvent government spying. So it's ANTI-US Gov.

[โ€“] Evotech@lemmy.world 6 points 1 month ago

I agree, in all for buying European, but you don't have to buy signal

[โ€“] nodiratime@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I keep donating. As I do for the FSF, the EFF etc.

Everything not-nonprofit? Boycotted.

[โ€“] fieryhamster@lemmy.world 17 points 1 month ago (4 children)

Try out the either Element or Fluffychat. Both based on decentralized, privacy, and security. Both based on Matrix. I like Fluffychat for ease of use and itโ€™s on all devices. Plus you have to verify every device that signs in or that new device can not see previous chats as they stay encrypted.

[โ€“] troed@fedia.io 15 points 1 month ago (1 children)

It's not just "based on". Element and Fluffychat are two clients that use Matrix and are fully interoperable.

(I'm sure you know, but I'm not sure it's obvious for potential newcomers)

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[โ€“] Bondar@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Sounds great, thanks for the tip

[โ€“] fieryhamster@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

You are most welcome. I tried a lot of various messengers and these were the only ones that seemed to fit the extreme security we need in age of fascism.

[โ€“] Bondar@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago

Exactly .. Element looks really good ... Now is the time to bully everyone around me to ditch the US shite and join me over there haha

[โ€“] doodledup@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Matrix is terrible for privacy. It shares more metadata with the servers than any other messenger.

[โ€“] troed@fedia.io 3 points 1 month ago (32 children)

From which year is that claim?

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[โ€“] Vlado@feddit.org 3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I also use Fluffychat and Iโ€™m pretty satisfied. But it has its own โ€œquirksโ€. I would say itโ€™s slightly more buggy than I would expect. And Iโ€™m mostly missing the function for pasting of images from mobile deviceโ€™s clipboard. Itโ€™s still doable, but in a somehow convoluted way. But once I got familiar with it, Iโ€™m liking it.

[โ€“] fieryhamster@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

One of the latest updates allow you to use the Share button to directly post to Fluffychat. But I do agree with quirks.

[โ€“] Vlado@feddit.org 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Yep, thatโ€™s what I meant by convoluted. Itโ€™s: Share -> Fluffychat -> Click on Post

Then Fluffychat opens with a popup where you select the respective chat and click on Forward. And then click on Send in new popup. Itโ€™s not a catastrophe, but I can definitely imagine less steps for that :)

[โ€“] Gieselbrecht@feddit.org 10 points 1 month ago

Threema is swiss

I think schildichat on matrix is a good alternative the app is developed by a German guy and matrix is decentralized as the fediverse you can have your own server or join a mass server.

[โ€“] buyeuropean@feddit.org 9 points 1 month ago

Element.io is a great option if you can get your circle to sign up

[โ€“] dreadfulwhaler@lemmy.world 8 points 1 month ago

The big inconvenience with the EU alternatives, is that I donโ€™t know a single soul who use them.

Here is a nice overview of the most common messenger:

https://www.messenger-matrix.de/messenger-matrix-en.html

[โ€“] vesi@lemm.ee 6 points 1 month ago
[โ€“] Jagget@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 month ago

Delta Chat! Mostly Germany based, email protocol PGP encrypted messenger

[โ€“] BlastboomStrice@mander.xyz 6 points 1 month ago (4 children)
[โ€“] Bondar@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago

That is great Comparison.. thanks alot.

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[โ€“] thespcicifcocean@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Wait, what's wrong with signal?

[โ€“] Bondar@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago (2 children)
[โ€“] thespcicifcocean@lemmy.world 6 points 1 month ago (3 children)

It's serverless though, right? The messages aren't stored in any of signal's servers? Or am I mistaken?

It's also open source, so it would be possible just to fork and use a "European" version of it. Also, since it's open source, it's free to use, so no money actually goes to on American company by using it.

[โ€“] adbenitez@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Itโ€™s serverless though, right?

no, and in fact the cost of running it is really high because the server infrastructure they need to pay, they even say it themselves "Signal is expensive" https://signal.org/blog/signal-is-expensive/

it would be possible just to fork and use a โ€œEuropeanโ€ version of it

in theory yes, in practice no one has done it, and then you should not use Signal but the european fork which will not be compatible/federated with signal

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[โ€“] Earflap@reddthat.com 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (6 children)

It is a us based non profit that doesn't store any information about you, your contacts, or any of your metadata, and encrypts all of your data in transit and at rest, using a strong open source encryption protocol. Signals privacy is so strong that when delivering a message, they cannot tell who the sender is. It is developed out in the open and has been independently audited like four times.

Also you don't need to purchase the app so boycotting it really only harms you since every other messaging app (that isnt self-hosted) is objectively worse in all of these measures, or has no network effect.

Don't punish orgs who are doing things right.

[โ€“] adbenitez@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

It is a us based non profit that doesnโ€™t store any information about you

still it runs in AWS, Microsoft, etc servers, and as any centralized service policy and interests can change at any time in the future, which would be pretty bad when you have several countries fully depending on them, just look the current situation with whatsapp, you can not be resilient/sovereign like that

has been independently audited like four times.

could you provide source pointing to the security audits?

[โ€“] Earflap@reddthat.com 2 points 1 month ago (2 children)

That's fair. My only real gripe with Signal is that it isn't federated. Matrix isn't ready for the general public and I'm doubtful it ever will be, so in the meantime Signal is the next best thing.

source for audits

Not me, but someone on the signal forums helpfully compiled many of them; there are a lot more than I thought! https://community.signalusers.org/t/wiki-overview-of-third-party-security-audits/13243

[โ€“] adbenitez@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 month ago

Not me, but someone on the signal forums helpfully compiled many of them; there are a lot more than I thought! https://community.signalusers.org/t/wiki-overview-of-third-party-security-audits/13243

ok I read it, these are no real security audits but academic reviews of protocol properties etc.

[โ€“] adbenitez@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 month ago

Matrix isnโ€™t ready for the general public and Iโ€™m doubtful it ever will be, so in the meantime Signal is the next best thing.

yeah, it is too complex etc. take a look at https://arcanechat.me/ and https://delta.chat/ (I contribute to these open source projects) they are probably the decentralized messengers that are more on pair with WhatsApp etc. super easy to use, no phone numbers or any private data required

Not me, but someone on the signal forums helpfully compiled many of them

thanks for sharing!

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[โ€“] plc@feddit.dk 3 points 1 month ago

I've heard about https://docs.cwtch.im/, but haven't tried it. It does seem to take privacy very seriously.

[โ€“] gon@lemm.ee 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I've heard of Session, though I haven't actually tried it out yet. It's Swiss.

[โ€“] doodledup@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)
[โ€“] gon@lemm.ee 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

That's not quite true, is it? There's some criticism, from what I can see, but from there to "it's not secure" is a bit of a leap. They even moved out of Australia to avoid the backdoor requirements; they clearly care, to some extent, at least.

[โ€“] ex_06@slrpnk.net 2 points 1 month ago (2 children)

And, other than moving, they also setup a foundation model.

They really act like they care. I also read the security criticism but they were not that valid and the person who made them still has to deliver the system they think secure enough.

A bit like the simplex ceo that in every comparison uses bad metrics lol. Recently happened also in the matrix blog, some incredible cringe comparisonโ€ฆ

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[โ€“] swelter_spark@reddthat.com 2 points 1 month ago

I've been using SimpleX, and I like it a lot. Very polished and reliable. The company is registered in the UK.

[โ€“] adbenitez@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 month ago

take a look at ArcaneChat https://arcanechat.me/

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