Why does it matter that Signal is US based? They don't get any of your data. And you don't have to donate if you don't want to.
this post was submitted on 10 Mar 2025
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I agree. If anything, Signal was made to circumvent government spying. So it's ANTI-US Gov.
I agree, in all for buying European, but you don't have to buy signal
I keep donating. As I do for the FSF, the EFF etc.
Everything not-nonprofit? Boycotted.
Try out the either Element or Fluffychat. Both based on decentralized, privacy, and security. Both based on Matrix. I like Fluffychat for ease of use and itโs on all devices. Plus you have to verify every device that signs in or that new device can not see previous chats as they stay encrypted.
It's not just "based on". Element and Fluffychat are two clients that use Matrix and are fully interoperable.
(I'm sure you know, but I'm not sure it's obvious for potential newcomers)
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Sounds great, thanks for the tip
You are most welcome. I tried a lot of various messengers and these were the only ones that seemed to fit the extreme security we need in age of fascism.
Exactly .. Element looks really good ... Now is the time to bully everyone around me to ditch the US shite and join me over there haha
Matrix is terrible for privacy. It shares more metadata with the servers than any other messenger.
I also use Fluffychat and Iโm pretty satisfied. But it has its own โquirksโ. I would say itโs slightly more buggy than I would expect. And Iโm mostly missing the function for pasting of images from mobile deviceโs clipboard. Itโs still doable, but in a somehow convoluted way. But once I got familiar with it, Iโm liking it.
One of the latest updates allow you to use the Share button to directly post to Fluffychat. But I do agree with quirks.
Yep, thatโs what I meant by convoluted. Itโs: Share -> Fluffychat -> Click on Post
Then Fluffychat opens with a popup where you select the respective chat and click on Forward. And then click on Send in new popup. Itโs not a catastrophe, but I can definitely imagine less steps for that :)
Threema is swiss
I think schildichat on matrix is a good alternative the app is developed by a German guy and matrix is decentralized as the fediverse you can have your own server or join a mass server.
Element.io is a great option if you can get your circle to sign up
The big inconvenience with the EU alternatives, is that I donโt know a single soul who use them.
Here is a nice overview of the most common messenger:
Threema.
Delta Chat! Mostly Germany based, email protocol PGP encrypted messenger
I'd say Simplex, but check this comparison:
That is great Comparison.. thanks alot.
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Wait, what's wrong with signal?
well .. US based.
It's serverless though, right? The messages aren't stored in any of signal's servers? Or am I mistaken?
It's also open source, so it would be possible just to fork and use a "European" version of it. Also, since it's open source, it's free to use, so no money actually goes to on American company by using it.
Itโs serverless though, right?
no, and in fact the cost of running it is really high because the server infrastructure they need to pay, they even say it themselves "Signal is expensive" https://signal.org/blog/signal-is-expensive/
it would be possible just to fork and use a โEuropeanโ version of it
in theory yes, in practice no one has done it, and then you should not use Signal but the european fork which will not be compatible/federated with signal
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https://therecord.media/signal-no-longer-cooperating-with-ukraine. Do i need to say more?
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It is a us based non profit that doesn't store any information about you, your contacts, or any of your metadata, and encrypts all of your data in transit and at rest, using a strong open source encryption protocol. Signals privacy is so strong that when delivering a message, they cannot tell who the sender is. It is developed out in the open and has been independently audited like four times.
Also you don't need to purchase the app so boycotting it really only harms you since every other messaging app (that isnt self-hosted) is objectively worse in all of these measures, or has no network effect.
Don't punish orgs who are doing things right.
It is a us based non profit that doesnโt store any information about you
still it runs in AWS, Microsoft, etc servers, and as any centralized service policy and interests can change at any time in the future, which would be pretty bad when you have several countries fully depending on them, just look the current situation with whatsapp, you can not be resilient/sovereign like that
has been independently audited like four times.
could you provide source pointing to the security audits?
That's fair. My only real gripe with Signal is that it isn't federated. Matrix isn't ready for the general public and I'm doubtful it ever will be, so in the meantime Signal is the next best thing.
source for audits
Not me, but someone on the signal forums helpfully compiled many of them; there are a lot more than I thought! https://community.signalusers.org/t/wiki-overview-of-third-party-security-audits/13243
Not me, but someone on the signal forums helpfully compiled many of them; there are a lot more than I thought! https://community.signalusers.org/t/wiki-overview-of-third-party-security-audits/13243
ok I read it, these are no real security audits but academic reviews of protocol properties etc.
Matrix isnโt ready for the general public and Iโm doubtful it ever will be, so in the meantime Signal is the next best thing.
yeah, it is too complex etc. take a look at https://arcanechat.me/ and https://delta.chat/ (I contribute to these open source projects) they are probably the decentralized messengers that are more on pair with WhatsApp etc. super easy to use, no phone numbers or any private data required
Not me, but someone on the signal forums helpfully compiled many of them
thanks for sharing!
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I've heard about https://docs.cwtch.im/, but haven't tried it. It does seem to take privacy very seriously.
I've heard of Session, though I haven't actually tried it out yet. It's Swiss.
Session is not secure.
That's not quite true, is it? There's some criticism, from what I can see, but from there to "it's not secure" is a bit of a leap. They even moved out of Australia to avoid the backdoor requirements; they clearly care, to some extent, at least.
And, other than moving, they also setup a foundation model.
They really act like they care. I also read the security criticism but they were not that valid and the person who made them still has to deliver the system they think secure enough.
A bit like the simplex ceo that in every comparison uses bad metrics lol. Recently happened also in the matrix blog, some incredible cringe comparisonโฆ
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I've been using SimpleX, and I like it a lot. Very polished and reliable. The company is registered in the UK.
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