this post was submitted on 27 Mar 2025
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[–] puppinstuff@lemmy.ca 40 points 1 week ago (3 children)

I got to meet him in Vegas. He was really nice to a nervous nerd. Now I’m even more impressed he has the courage to change his beliefs in public.

[–] MJKee9@lemmy.world 22 points 1 week ago

A sign of true intelligence is the ability to change your opinions after consideration and evidence. Penn always struck me as a very intelligent man.

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[–] kiwii4k@lemmy.zip 38 points 1 week ago (24 children)

anyone who claims to be "a libertarian" should be forced to watch the libertarian convention which YOU KNOW none of them have ever seen in their lives.

check out the ideas your "party" pushes. real big brain stuff.

there's nothing wrong with freedom, but regulation is necessary. to say otherwise is either ignorance, stupidity, or malice.

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[–] drmoose@lemmy.world 30 points 1 week ago (10 children)

I got turned towards Libertanianism when I lived in Germany for a while and if you ever had you'd know why. Then I lived in Asia where it's the exact opposite and that turned me towards socialism. My point being is that there's definitely a golden mean to freedoms and any absolutist should be immediately ignored because they are objectively wrong.

[–] wieson@feddit.org 17 points 1 week ago (17 children)

I got turned towards Libertanianism when I lived in Germany for a while and if you ever had you'd know why.

Living in Germany rn. I don't get it? Can you please explain?

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[–] rational_lib@lemmy.world 29 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Libertarianism is just a way to soft-sell Totalitarian Plutocracy.

[–] Rooty@lemmy.world 26 points 1 week ago

I was about to say "letting the rich fuck us in the ass without even the courtesy of a reacharound" but your answer is more acceptable in polite society.

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[–] FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 29 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (4 children)

I found Libertarianism sorta interesting in the 90's, but after school shootings became the norm, and they decided they still support absolute gun rights, I had to nope out. It's only gotten nuttier since.

[–] Kolanaki@pawb.social 24 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

Ron Paul got me interested with the proposal to legalize weed; noped out when I learned Libertarians also believe that businesses should not be regulated at all.

I don't know how you can claim to have progressive social ideas while letting corporations cause harm by not setting rules they must follow.

[–] theangryseal@lemmy.world 29 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

I was a very serious libertarian in my youth. I grew up deep in red country. I had no positive intellectual influences in my life whatsoever. It was Christians versus everyone else. I was the only atheist I knew.

The best friend I have ever had in my life was college educated, deeply intelligent, deeply flawed, but a very beautiful, loving, and brilliant person. He was the only atheist I had ever met. I was 18 years old, he was 15 years my senior.

He introduced me to all of the objectivist/libertarian thinkers and their works. I had never had anyone in my life who had any kind of serious intellectual interests. He gave me a place to start when I wouldn’t have otherwise had one.

I went all in.

It’s funny, because he told me when I was 20 years old. “I promise you, 20 years from now you and I are going to have a conversation and you will have become a bleeding heart liberal, 100%. I promise you. I can tell by the way you think about almost everything.”

He was right. It’s funny because he is as liberal as I am today. His son and my daughter are very close, very political, and very gay. They’ve moved the needle for him big time, I think.

For me, the moment that put me on this road was a very simple one. I was driving to work one day and I stopped at a red light. I seen this man struggling to walk, his right foot was turned around backwards. It just hit me like a ton of bricks, we are not on an even playing field at all. This man cannot help that his foot is on backwards. I can’t help if I’m dumber or smarter than the next guy. I can’t help what opportunities I have or have not had. I can’t help my bad luck or my good luck. It isn’t my fault that my dad is a junkie and doors are closed to me that are open to people with connections that I don’t have.

Why do two brothers from the same family with the same moral upbringing take such radically different paths? One becomes a junkie and the other becomes a preacher. Is there something beyond our control that guides us? If there is, should we not look out for one another? Should those of us at an advantage help those of us at a disadvantage? Surely we can’t leave them to die.

It was Bernie Sanders who finally flipped me completely.

Someone who was passionately empathetic, who was guided by the thought that we as a species can be better. It was before he ran for president, just some videos I seen of him on YouTube.

Most libertarians I have known are good people. They believe deeply in individualism, to the point that as long as any individual is living a life that brings harm to no one else, that person should be free to live how they choose.

The problem is, they idolize success, and fail to see how a successful person takes advantage of everyone else to get there.

When I meet a libertarian now, I trust that person. Maybe it’s because I shared that view so deeply at one point, but they all really do mean well. The ones that I have known have been very idealistic and believed that people would choose to do good for goodness sake.

Obviously, some very shitty people can grab onto any ideology, but anecdotally, the ones that I have met are just misguided and most of the socially liberal libertarians I knew when I was younger are now very progressive people.

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[–] demizerone@lemmy.world 28 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Penn Jilletet pulled me 100 % onto the vaccine train with his ball and shield demonstration with teller on their bull shit show. Until this day, I still haven't seen any demonstration that was more convincing than that on any subject in the amount of time that they used.

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[–] FreakinSteve@lemmy.world 28 points 1 week ago (2 children)

I am a PJ fan and follower, but I am well aware that he has long been a naive idiot operating from a place of priviledge. He is well insulated from the pitfalls of the ideas he espouses, and it took an UNDENIABLE COLLAPSE into straight up Nazism for him to finally grasp it.

Luv ya Penn, but I ain't giving you any fucking medals

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[–] BilboBargains@lemmy.world 26 points 1 week ago

Self awareness is such a precious thing in people but it is a prerequisite for this type of personal growth. It can be difficult but ultimately it is rewarding and fulfilling to realise there are things that you don't like about yourself and set about correcting them.

[–] SidTheShuckle@lemmy.blahaj.zone 25 points 1 week ago (3 children)

There used to be a time back when libertarianism was anti-capitalist. Then right wingers stole it and turned it into a circus.

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[–] cubism_pitta@lemmy.world 25 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (4 children)

Penn Jillette is one of my favorite people to just listen to talk.

He has softened a lot over the years from the loud and in your face personality he was and talks a lot about some of his bad takes or moments in his career that we would play differently today.

He may just be a fucking juggler but sometimes he has cool shit to say :)

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[–] doug@lemmy.today 24 points 1 week ago (2 children)

I’d like to see them do an updated Bullshit series. They really lampooned veganism at the time when I was on the fence about it, and even then I knew they weren’t giving it a fair argument.

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[–] dreadbeef@lemmy.dbzer0.com 20 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (33 children)

I still think the word libertarian should be reclaimed by the left. Fuck the ancaps who took it. Westerners are too scared of it, despite it originally meaning a socialist. Places where white peopl aren't the majority have no issue with the word. My Filipino family understand that liberty is just another word for freedom, but think socialism is just state communism. Socialists will never win against capitalist propaganda without violence. Too many people hate anarchists and "socialists" but are not at all afraid of the principles of anarchist socialism. It needs better branding, and the word libertarians was literally designed for that. And the ignorant western liberals believed them and hate the word libertarian because of it instead of being educated.

[–] jwiggler@sh.itjust.works 27 points 1 week ago (9 children)

I agree with you but it's just difficult when you have groups like Libertarians of NH posting this shit

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[–] WuceBrillis@lemm.ee 23 points 1 week ago (2 children)

It's funny, because in Europe we classify liberals as right wing too.

Over here, Liberals are the people who want liberal economic policies, meaning less rules for the rich. Our left wing are socialdemocratic, with liberal social policies (meaning freedom to live how you want)

In America, they call their left wing liberals, because they are scared of socialism and just the thought of people getting to decide how to live their own lives are semi-radical.

For so many years the American left wing has only been focusing on social issues, while neglecting the more important stuff like healthcare, education, workers rights and affordable housing.

I get wanting to fight for acceptance for all, but its just distractions man. And as soon as gays became accepted, trans people became the new out group. The fascists will always create a perceived enemy that normal people have to defend.

You can fight for their rights without letting it take focus away from the oligarchs trying to fuck everyone.

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[–] moakley@lemmy.world 16 points 1 week ago (9 children)

I've always considered myself a libertarian, but I'm coming to realize I need to find another word. I used to be able to explain that assholes were ruining the name, but now the assholes outnumber people like me by too much.

I think the real turning point was when Jo Jorgensen said, "It is not enough to be passively not racist, we must be actively anti-racist," and then she had to walk it back because the libertarian party was so fucking racist. Like, that's not even a political statement. It's a moral one, and it's one I agree with.

Then when the Libertarian Party changed their stance on abortion, I was done with them. I clung to the lowercase L label, but at this point it doesn't seem worth it anymore.

I just think the government should be limited to things that only the government can handle. Policing? Roads? Business regulations? Those are all things that can only be handled by the government. Restrictions on what kind of stove I can buy? Restrictions on what I can put in my body or how I dress or what my kids can read at school? Those are all bullshit.

I guess it helps that I align with Democrats on most of the major issues now, but I still won't consider myself a Democrat.

[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 21 points 1 week ago (9 children)

Stoves are a great example of why the richest among us want to push libertarianism. You see the freedom to buy a gas stove. They see the freedom to make products that are one penny cheaper but kill their users.

Libertarianism and anarchism in general fail to account for sociopaths who are willing to make others suffer for their own gain.

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[–] Fredthefishlord@lemmy.blahaj.zone 17 points 1 week ago (6 children)

Conservatives didn't ruin libertarianism. Libertarianism has always been bad.

Restrictions on what kind of stove I can buy?

Stuff like this is a perfect example of the issues with libertarian ideology. They want freedom to continue to destroy the environment.

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