Ruby rhod was so problematic (huge sex pest and weird queercoding/baiting), but he was such a vibe though. Big part in my journey toward deconstructing gender roles and expression. And seemed way more entertaining than most streamers.
this post was submitted on 29 Mar 2025
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CW: Lot of people eating meat in this one. And, like, racism, sexism, anti-indigenous bigotry, queerphobia. This movie is a social mess. So go in to it knowing that. There's probably going to be some dissonance if this is your first watch, as it's full of problematic elements interspersed with a lot of camp humor and absurdity. So, be ready for that. But as a cultural artifact and an essay in the craft of filmmaking it's fascinating.
They committed to the bit so hard that it just kind of blew through everything else. The whole movie is so camp I can still enjoy it while acknowledging the bad stuff. I think the camp is key. Ruby was initially, as you say, problematic, but he was just so over the top and so consistently ridiculous that you can re-interpret him as a parody of 90s queerphobia. Like some kind of heterosexual drag queen riffing on the entire 90s. Plus Ruby, for all his flaws, is a heroic character who sticks with the heroes right to the end and stays true through all the bullshit. That helps a lot.
I'd draw a comparison to how C-3P0 is a camp gay character; Prissy, averse to violence, his primary skills are as he says language and protocol when he's surrounded by action heroes. But he's still an important part of the team, he's heroic, his skills are important to the plot. He's a pastiche of queer people but because the character is taken seriously and integrated in to the cast and plot he can still be seen as a positive and loved character fifty years later. Probably also helps that he's the Laurel to Artoo's Hardy, so he's drawing on an established comedic tradition of straight man (lol) and funny man.
Corben and Ruby have the same straight man/funny man dynamic, with both characters being pastiches, and that probably serves to soften some of the bad elements of Ruby - Corben is just as ridiculous in the other direction and almost a self-Parody of Bruce Willis typical action hero.
The film does have a lot of problems; A very French (derogatory) depiction of indigenous people fighting against genocide, the whole "Born Sexy Yesterday" trope with Leelu. If it wasn't so delightfully, self-awarely ridiculous it'd be unwatchable.
I'd compare and contrast with Tim Curry's portrayal of the Camp Gay Dr. Frankenfurter in Rocky Horror. Frankenfurter embodies basically every negative portrayal of gay men and trans women in the 70s, but he's so over the top camp and the story is presented through a queer lens that celebrates sexuality and queer culture and absurdity, so it allows the camp gay villain to be a refutation of the stereotype that is fun and enjoyable. Frankenfurter is a take that to the culture, a "fuck you, we're going to spit your stereotype back in your face with ridiculous joy". Idk how it reads today, but for me as a kid in the 90s it was one of the only unapologetically weird and joyous depictions of queer sexuality I ever saw. The villainous Frankenfurter is given pathos and made sympathetic, The casts "Descent in to D*" is treated as liberatory freedom from a staid and lifeless culture, with the Professor who is the paladin of that culture eventually giving in to "absolute pleasure" and joining the cast. Riff Raff and Magenta's betrayal shows that even on Translyvania there are repressive elements that refuse to follow Frankenfurters transgressive path to freedom.
Looking at this, I really think film grain allows for a layer of unreality to the images that assists greatly in suspension of disbelief.
God look at how much smaller Bruce Willis is than modern action heroes. He actually looks like a normal person, albeit fit|, with his shirt off. But like dude has no definition. No huge pecs, no dehydration. And in 1997 he's one of the sexiest men alive, married to Demi Moore who was one of the sexiest women alive. Old action movies are a great way to see how body standards of changed for men over the decades.
A careful, professional combination of practical effects and CGI thirty years ago looks so much better than a lot of the hasty messes that are made today. And there's so much careful attention to detail. There's no pretense that any of the technology does anything. They're very deliberately working to create an aesthetic of sci fi movies, and they did it with great care. The scene where they reconstruct Leeloo is still pristine use of CGI You coudl do it in higher fidelity today, but it's extremely effective storytelling. It uses the technology in combination with other visual technology to do it's job well. Lol you can see hte sugar-glass right before she punches through it. I'm sure that drove some editor bonkers.
This soundtrack is such a vibe. The ultimate warrior and supreme being is like "Hmm cops fuck that".
Also, all the actors who are just honestly, normally ugly? Like people with scars, big people, just normal looking people you don't see much of in movies today. Even the extras are flawless today. It's a very notable difference.
NYPD cops saying "please". It's a time capsule of drastic changes in culture. Just the uncritical portrayal of cops as dumb, mean assholes. "The phonebook said he lives here" that's right, there used to be publicly accessible records of everyone's name and number.
Either way, lemme know what you think. I think 5th Element, for good or ill, is a very important cultural artifact of the late 90s. You an really see the contrast between the End of History embodied by Fifth Element and the GWOT era a few years later. Like, idk, compare the jingoistic awfullness of Michael Bay's tranformer movies, I guess.
God this movie does have fucking problems, though. Corben kissing Leeloo when she's unconsious is like what the actual fuck? "Never without my permission" is a good line though.
Movie directors need to work out how to have super-soldiers hold guns absolutely still and convey to the audience that that isn't something normal humans can do.
There's so many goofy details. The super-microwave where she puts in an empty bowl and an enormous chicken dinner comes out.
We also get the "Disabled Villain" with Zorg's leg brace. Big oof. The 90s were bad folks. We don't want to go back to that shit.
Seriously, sit down with a note-pad sometime, just go through this and take notes. Because as a work of art this is absolutely brilliant. And as a lens in to all the social problems of the 90s - racism, sexism, gueerphobia, anti-indigenous prejudice, it's all here to analyze in the unique form of a very carefully and lovingly made camp sci-fi film. It really, really embodies the truth that all science fiction is not about the future, but about the modern world.
Also really anti-capitalist. Not communist at all, it's very individualist, but Capital is explicitly the enemy of life and the US governmen is shown as varyingly brutal and useless.
Oh god I forgot there's a whole gag about a deaf man being unable to communicate with Corben that's played for comedy. This really is a fucking time capsule. This is one of the difficulties of having grown up in the 90s. Every cultural product I nostalgically love is full of this shit. There are exceptions, but I genuinely dislike revisiting old media because I'm afraid I'll find out that a story I loved was full of horrible things that went over my head as a kid, or that I've forgotten.
I'm like 90% sure this movie fails the Bechdel test hard. I think Leeloo and the Diva might be the only women with speaking roles.
Zorg's minions are coded as big Tom of Finland leather guys.
Man there is so much like, racism in this. Just straightforward stereotype racism.
The creation of the world is so careful and detailed. The way the mail arrives. The way the mugger tries to rob him. lol the parody of Princess Leia that I just now thirty years later is a parody of Leia and manages to somehow be anti-communist, misogynist, and, well, a parody of Star Wars. But like every prop, every set, every little device and doodad, someone put some thought in to them, how they look, how they fit in to this slapstick camp sci fi world. The way the fridge and shower share the same space to fit in to the notion of Korben living in a tiny apartment in a massively densely populated future new york, but that diegetic detail is used for a ridiculous slapstick gag where different people are shoved in to the fridge and the shower in a classic shell game gag of shuffling two groups around so neither sees the other.
The art direction is amszing in this film. I remember watching a BTS clip and showing the reams of paper worth of concept art drawings they made to flesh out the world.
And as you said, when it's not punching down, the humor is so fresh, I think even more now compared to movies today, as we live in the hangover of nearly 20 years of irony-poisoned, dumbly self-aware, Whedon-esque quips.
BTW, when you mention anti-indigenous sentiment, is that referring to the alien mercenaries that Zorg hires to kill the bronze aliens and get the stones? I have to admit I haven't watched it in forever, so I'm drawing a blank on what you see in the film as indigenous-coded characters.
Yeah, they're described as freedom fighters whose people were wiped out by the earth government and they want revenge. They're working for Zorg to purchase weapons. For the most part it's played for laughs and they're used as punching bags without being afforded any dignity.
Which, like, they're pretty cool. Good creature design, they've got personality, their shape shifting ability is neat.
I guess that their backstory is presented so superficially that I was having a hard time even remembering it other than "mercenaries with a sense of honor who function as a foil to Zorg's capitalist nihilism"
Marriage as a throughgoing running gag.
This movie would be so much better if they hadn't made Leeloo pathetic so much. Ugh. The character is absolutely salvageable, but damn.
Legit wonder how much of this look was inspiried by Super Mario Brothers because these two movies have to be in dialogue in regard to their overall look, aesthetic, and general gonzo style..
Ugh. Korben yelling at Leeloo. No thank you.
Fuck. Christ. This movie absolutely did not need to have all this "problematic" which isn't sufficient, but problematic bullshit, but it does, but it didn't need to.
Just introduced Ruby 55minutes in.
This is a very light hearted movie. It's rarely if ever cruel or meanspirited.
Man, Ruby's introduction is so carefully staged, framed, each cut is dynamic, full of motion, telling us who Ruby is and how he relates to the world - No shot or frame is wasted. Like, again, this is problematic, no question, but as a craft, as an understanding of film as a medium, it's incredibly well done. Like he's totally in command, but displays casual indifference and slapstick violence towards others in his introduction.
I love the costume design and overall fashion aesthetic of this. Everyone looks great. Like the clothes just make everyone look good. The good guys and villains are slick and stylish. Everyone is a little ridiculous but they make ridiculous look good. Every costume tells a story.
Up more casual racism.
And more incredibly slick props.
Ruby is camp gay, but immediately after his introduction he's having sex with a flight attendant and I'd love if anyone has an analysis of that juxtaposition.
God this is so good at cutting together sight gags with events happening in different places at the same time.
Legit wonder how much of this look was inspiried by Super Mario Brothers because these two movies have to be in dialogue in regard to their overall look, aesthetic, and general gonzo style..
I remember being fascinated about how the future looked straight up grimy. Like you would rest your hand on any surface and it would be covered in oil, soot, garbage juice, or some bodily fluid. Even the space airport casually has a wall of garbage bags and no one seems to mind at all? But unlike other 20th century sci-fi movies where the future is grimy like robocop, judge dredd (the one with stallone) or blade runner, there's not a value judgement to the dirtiness. We're never made to feel that this future society is decadent, d*generate, or overrun only because it's dirty. It doesn't shy away from how stressful it is to live in and in this world, but it shows people going about their lives, not wallowing in the filth.
Ruby is camp gay, but immediately after his introduction he's having sex with a flight attendant and I'd love if anyone has an analysis of that juxtaposition.
I think it's impossible to act like Ruby Rhod's not camp gay-coded, but the scene with the flight attendant to me shows that Ruby is a purely sexual being. Maybe it's because I'm pan, but the whole sequence in the airport/spaceship reads to me as Ruby being frustrated/turned on by Korben's refusal to engage, and taking it out by banging the next person who will pay attention to him. Ruby is definitely camp, but I think the character is better understood as a hyprrsexual being, for whom sex is as turned to 11 as any other part of his personality. It's also a very 90s European coding of gayness, where soft, femme-coded hypersexuality was the more mainstream perception of queerness people like Luc Besson would've been in contact with in places like London, Paris or Berlin.
Even the space airport casually has a wall of garbage bags and no one seems to mind at all?
This doubles as a joke about NYC's abysmal garbage collection policies. They just leave bags of rubbish on the sidewalk for collection and it fuels NYC's notorious rat population. I think some parts of NYC started using bins and dumpsters like, a year ago? Two years ago? Whenever there's a labor dispute with the trash collectors NYC would be full of giant mounds of trash until it was resolved.
I think it's impossible to act like Ruby Rhod's not camp gay-coded
This gives me much to think about, thank you.
This doubles as a joke about NYC's abysmal garbage collection policies. They just leave bags of rubbish on the sidewalk for collection and it fuels NYC's notorious rat population. I think some parts of NYC started using bins and dumpsters like, a year ago? Two years ago? Whenever there's a labor dispute with the trash collectors NYC would be full of giant mounds of trash until it was resolved.
Ah yeah this tracks, and it ties in with my observation that in many other, more fascist pieces of media from the late 20th century the fact that the big city is dirty and full of trash is presented as shorthand for social decay. In the fifth element it's sort of part of life, there's no heavy handed value judgement, even if it could've been easy to include in the film
More casual racism.
The way they add elements of the absurd to the outfits, I just love it.
Diegetically Ruby is considered a sex god and every woman seems to be infatuated with him, and again, I'd love to hear people's thoughts on how his portrayal of camp gay diva is juxtaposed with his in-story sex god status. I assume he's supposed to be channeling flamboyant sex symbols like Prince, David Bowie, Freddy Mercurcy, and so forth.
The Diva is such a cool character. For a long time it was generally assumed that no real person could perform her song, but several people have pulled it off since then.
The way the story is happening in many places simultaeniously in a very tight timeline is very well done and creates a big universe, lets many characters participate in the plot, and just idk i really admire how it was done.
Seriously I want someone to dig in to the Ruby as camp gay Diva Ruby as universally admired sex god dichotomy here.
Okay and then we get the Diva and the movie becomes absolutely sincere. And that's really well done. Being able to go from high camp to this very sincere and moving dramatic scene, which is a standout in a very full film for just how gorgeous the song is another example of how strong this movie is as a movie, as an art piece that fully makes use of it's medium. And then smoothly back to camp.
Okay now we finally get to see Leeloo, fully recovered from her ordeal, updated on the situation, go to war. Again, Leeloo has a strong basis but the movie doesn't do her justice. The scene is well constructed with fun fighting gags but it certainly could be tighter.
The good old 90s stunt leg.
I really love Zorg's gun. Again, wonderful prop design. It's such a silly as sci-fi gun but also a super cool sci fi gun.
And, again, the overlapping layers of simulataenious events used to keep the plot moving among different characters in different places.
Some of these sets are enormous.
This movie really needs to be more about Leeloo. She gets her moment in battle, but it's really just a moment. She's mostly moved by the plot instead of being an agent driving the plot. For most of the movie the plot is happening to her, and it's Korben who has agency. And in a movie that builds so much on having many things happening at once in different places they had ample room to have her being a dynamic agent alongside Korben instead of being mostly subordinate to his story.
Yeah, Korben's action seen is much noisier than Leeloo's and focuses more on him. Like don't get me wrong her fight is cool, but, idk, Korben's holds the focus on him while he fights the indigenous soldiers.
Casual abelism as comedy.
The action scene is very well crafted. Comedy and tension, high action. timing and pacing, choreography.
Okay Ruby is firmly a deuteragonist now, acting as Korben's foil. Ruby follows Korben. He doesn't have to, but he's part of the team now.
I love Zorg's arc. he never meets Korben, and ultimately he's hoisted by his own petard more or less literally. His story is a closed loop and he defeats himself.
Man Chris's eyes must have hurt after keeping them wide, wide, wide open for so long.
Correction; Laurel and Hardy took turns being Straight Man and Funny Man, Abbot and Costello played those roles more closely.
They do not have touch screens in the future, indicating that the point of divergence is sometime before Steve Jobs ruined phones.
Eugh I should get on with my day.
Eugh Leeloo is so wasted by being a plot device. I love Milla Jovoviches oeuvre of terrible action movies, and she is not being given a chance to be her full terrible action movie heroine self here.
God there's just so much good physical comedy in this. Regardless of all criticisms everyone is doing a very good job with movement, expressions, how they interact with each other physically.
Love this callback to like an hour and a half back in the movie. Strong Chekov's Gun moment.
Again, despite all the flaws, it's love and human connection that defeats evil and capitalism. A strange bunch of oddballs who have nothing in common coming together to do the right thing.
You know if I was gonna do this I would have had Korben and Leeloo be the supreme being together. Not Leeloo as just a MacGuffin, but two people connected in love forming the supreme being together.
I like that the actual defeat of evil isn't a big moment. Evil isn't important, or strong. The heroes obliterate it in a moment and it's back to the characters. Because evil doesn't have character. There's nothing complicated about it. There's nothing to explore or investigate. Just a bunch of shitheads following the path of least resistance towards personal gain in the material circumstances in which they are embedded. The material circumstances, the systems of Capital, the systems of Imperialism and Colonialism, those are big, complicated systems that merit detailed investigation. But the people who actually run those systems, the people who are elevated by them to positions of power over others, are rarely interesting or complex characters. More than most they are tossed too and fro by the circumstances they have tripped in to, ignorant of the waves that rule their lives.
In conclusion, The Fifth Element is a study in contrasts.
Okay and then we get the Diva and the movie becomes absolutely sincere. And that's really well done. Being able to go from high camp to this very sincere and moving dramatic scene, which is a standout in a very full film for just how gorgeous the song is another example of how strong this movie is as a movie, as an art piece that fully makes use of it's medium. And then smoothly back to camp.
Seeing Korben, our cynical, laconic, stone-faced macho power fantasy 90s hero be moved almost to the point of tears by a piece of art, and by opera no less -something relatively inscrutable to the audience-, is a brief moment of sincerity that plants the seeds of the ending where he breaks down while trying to convince leeloo life is worth saving. It gives him unseen depth, make the feeling feel earned and Korben's arc more complete.
Korben is a perfect middle-aged straight white guy's fantasy. He's a former hero who is now a put-upon everyman, scraping by in a menial job, having lost most of what was important to him. Then suddenly he's thrust in to the middle of saving the world, he get's to re-claim all his glory as a soldier and hero, and he gets to fall in love with the beautiful young semi-divine Milla Jovovich. Like I have that fantasy constantly, yearning for the body and skills I used to have, for the days when my love life was richer and I was stronger and more capable. So there's that element (lol) - The protagonist as a self-insert for a what a lot of middle-aged white guys would like to be.
Too tired to participate (my partner and I have had some good discussions of this movie) but want to say I really enjoyed your analysis and commentary. 5th element is one of my problematic faves. My own sci-fi worldbuilding took inspiration from it for years and years afterward.
Ruby rhod was so problematic (huge sex pest
So are streamers tbh so they accurately guessed this.
It was probably mostly based on the writers experience of television and hollywood sex pests though.
Ruby Rhod was a radio personality, and considering the huge creeps and pieces of shit who dominated talk radio in the 90s (Bubba the love sponge, Howard Stern, Opie and Anthony, etc.), it tracks. The only difference was that Ruby was androgynous and pansexual-coded while all of these dudes were classic cishet insecure men.
Yeh. God, that whole genre of men radio shock jocks is so disgusting. Like looking back its incredible that they were just there as part of the public. Controversial, sure, but imagine Asmongold was somehow a sex symbol and was broadcast every city in america over the radio for an hour every morning. that's sorta kinda what Howard Stern was.
At least now I can choose to ignore most of these horrible people. If you were driving somewhere and turned on the radio to check the weather or traffic updates? Inescapable.
Ruby rhod was so problematic
absolutely but iconic nonetheless