Ladybird faces an uphill website compatibility battle thanks to Chrome dominance. I wish them all the best.
this post was submitted on 08 May 2025
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They are writing the browser from the ground up following web specifications, specifications Google themselves often write and maintain. So it should just work once it's done, great talk by the lead Dev that goes into a lot more detail on that and just the project in general. https://youtu.be/9YM7pDMLvr4
As far as I understand most websites load so far (slowly) and will be aout 90% correct, but with visual issues
Iโm of the opinion that Google produces the specifications in bad faith, choosing features and constructions that are costly to implement to prevent others from entering the market. For example, see WebUSB. Itโs a completely unnecessary standard at the very least and waste developer time. Other browsers have not bothered to implement it, generally calling it out for being a dumb specification.
With that said yes there are standards, but primarily pushed and controlled by one company that is not interested in others writing web browsers. Hopefully theyโre forced to divest themselves from Chrome.
You seem to know more about it than I do, and I generally agree with your assessment. Either way ladybird has a talented team of paid engineers and tons of community contributors, so I'm choosing to believe in them even if Google is doing their best to stop them!
Yeah I already can't rely on just Firefox and keep chrome around as a last resort backup. I'll be trying Ladybird out for sure though always good to help test new browser options
The one reservation I have about ladybird is that the main dev seems to think that being inclusive is "bringing politics into the project" while assuming everyone is a man is "neutral". Did anything ever happen to that drama? I feel like everyone just kind of forgot about it without any resolution.
Do you know why we don't hear such drama from Chrome developers? Because Google has a PR team. A chunk of the people in the world hold shitty opinions. A similar chunk of developers hold them too. It's just going to happen.
Chrome is also developed by much more than 1 dev, which to me makes the views of a single dev irrelevant. But when 1 person controls the development and access of the community to participate like hyprland for example, then their views, policies towards bigotry, and the way they treat the community becomes much more important imo. Especially when there are no viable forks.
True. Which is why in happy to donate to my Lemmy instance but not to the Lemmy developers.
It could also be entirely bullshit, or unintentional, or whatever.
Yeah, the public opinion court is notoriously lacking on the whole due process thing.
Yes, and the public is also apparently severely undereducated generally speaking
I looked into it some months ago and if I'm not mistaken the dev referred to a "user profile" as "he" in an installation instruction text.
Then someone made a suggestion to change it to "they" and he answered that he didn't want politics in his project.
My thoughts were that "they" didn't fit and if changed, "user profile" should be "it" and not "they".
He didn't change it to "it" either though.. It's really not clear if it's just bad English, a case of don't tell me what to do or full blown bigotry.
My vote, at least for now, goes to overblown drama.
Hmm I see. I would definitely be more willing to be understanding if Andreas didn't follow up with the addition of a code of conduct that seems purpose written to shield himself from criticism under the guise of tolerance.
To me it feels like a doubling down and imo having a code of conduct that basically says you must tolerate all views seems like a recipe for garnering a crowd similar to that of rumble or kick.
Nobody really cared about the drama except for the drama queens. The maintainer doesn't care so why does he even have to waste time on it? His stance wasn't that male pronouns should be considered neutral, but that it doesn't fucking matter. Maybe if the person that raised the "problem" would have actually added something worthwhile to the project instead of just focusing on some pronouns in the FUCKING DEV DOCUMENTS they could have changed them without anybody caring.
No need to be aggressive. If that's your position then so be it. I just figured I must have missed an apology or something.
And if it's not about wasting time, then I don't get why they then spent time adding a code of conduct that reads to me as codifying tolerance of bigotry (it says "Participants will be tolerant of opposing views", which in context reads to me as a doubling down that participants must tolerate non-inclusiveness as an "opposing view"). If they really cared about not wasting time then why not just accept the PR to make the language inclusive instead of wasting time creating drama and doubling down with a code of conduct that flies in the face of the paradox of tolerance.
I'm not aggressive. Don't be condescending. I used caps instead of making it bold. And I use cursewords whenever the fuck I want.
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He doesn't need to give an apology. You're making this a thing which seems to prove his point.
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The PR is just a waste of a PR because it does nothing and it stems from what at the time was a very political bullshit issue. Allowing the PR would provide a foundation to make everything that isn't pronoun-correct to be able to get attacked. And you don't want that in a project.
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It's not bigotry because it doesn't matter what pronoun one uses in DEV DOCUMENTS. Use whatever the hell you want. It's only an issue if it's facing the end user. Anything else is just annoying and comes from an agenda. And it's best to stop people with agendas as fast as possible.
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The same response would have been given if somebody were to try to change an inclusive pronoun to an exclusive pronoun. But that seems to be something people don't even want to accept.
I couldn't give a flying fuck, it's software.
Good to know
Unlike other browsers, Ladybird is not based on Chromium or Gecko or Blink but on the new independent SerenityOS LibWeb engine with a Qt GUI.
noice
Finally a QT browser because the stupid Firefox (and forks) always have disappearing GTK buttons randomly.
Hope they can adapt that GUI to libadwaita also.
Why though? Qt is much easier for cross platform and cross DE development.
libadwaita might be a good sideproject, but I don't see much upside. And I even use Gnome.
Libadwaita just looks native on Gnome. I'm not saying its a necessity, but it would make the design feel more integrated on the system. I also run Gnome.
Thatโs an awesome project.
Question, though, from scanning the repo: why not rust? ~65% of the codebase is C++; strikes me that thisโd be a FANTASTIC opportunity to show how incredibly efficient, effective, and safe rust can be for a wide-scale, consumer-oriented application.
I think there was an interview where that question was asked and after various languages being evaluated it came down to being the language everyone working on it was most familiar with.
I'm looking forward to using it in the future.
Well yeah, but be that as it may, greenfields are an opportunity for the contributors to dive headfirst into using a new language, and bring their expertise from other languages into that new one. Idk, thatโs just how I look at it, given that this project doesnโt really have the feel of something thatโs under serious time pressure.
Edit: not to mention, I would be a little surprised if a lot of the js couldnโt be also replaced with rust compiled to WASM
I see your point and do agree greenfield projects can be great for learning new languages but only if the project is simple enough. Browsers are huge and complex, language choice is very important as well as who will be working on it.
I think one of the arguments as well was that building the DOM in rust would have extra challenges as it's fundamentally very object oriented so having a language suited to OOP would make it easier.
I really hope something amazing comes out of this. Expectations are building up across many communities and I hope they can deliver.
Still not sure how they will sustain themselves though. The donation model is obviously very ethical, but I doubt its sustainability in the long run.
I'm waiting patiently for this.
I can't find the original thread now but there was some drama surrounding the author of this project and his views on gender language.
https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity/pull/6814
This was also his project at the time. Shame I can't find the Lemmy post.
Shame they didn't join effort on servo. AFAIK there is nothing wrong with it except for the fact they are not familiar with rust.
Finally some good news in this space!