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Soulslike - Discussion, News, Memes

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[Discussion] Could Nightreign and Duskbloods be considered "extraction soulslikes"? (lemmy.zip)
submitted 1 week ago by v4ld1z@lemmy.zip to c/soulslike@lemmy.zip
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I was watching a video by Frost (used to be with Second Wind doing the Cold Takes) about extraction shooters and their recent rise to popularity and what it means for gaming. He mentioned there that Miyazaki seems to be a fan of Tarkov and that he took inspiration for their upcoming multiplayer games from the game, concluding that both Nightreign as well as Duskbloods could be considered "extraction" games. Does that fit the bill?

I mean, in a sense it does: you drop into the world, no resources which you need to farm up, you fight enemies and explore the map for more resources and weapons, and you lose all your progress once you die. Could this be a new sub-genre, then?

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[–] GammaGames@beehaw.org 4 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

That description sounds more rogue-like, can you extract in this dlc to keep your items? That’s the primary distinction between the subgenres imo

Whatever it is, it’s definitely a mashup. I saw an interesting video recently where they broke up genres into 3 different groups that worked together:

  1. Genre - What you’re doing moment to moment. For soulslikes they’re typically third person action RPGs, but you could also have a platformer or deckbuilder.
  2. Mode - Progression mechanics for the player. What are the rewards? Why is the player invested? The soulslikes I’ve played were branchy but story based. This is also where I’d put roguelike, extraction, metroidvania, etc.
  3. Mood - the game’s vibe and aesthetics. Cozy, horror, grimdark, this is also where’d I’d put soulslike

Some words have associations, soulslike assumes 3rd person action unless otherwise specified, but I thought the breakdown is more interesting than the usual genre talk I see in these kinds of spaces

[–] rockerface@lemm.ee 2 points 1 week ago (2 children)

You're describing roguelikes

[–] v4ld1z@lemmy.zip 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Yes, true, though wouldn't an extraction shooter be also considered a roguelike then? Or a rogue-lite?

[–] rockerface@lemm.ee 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I suppose so. Metaprogression is your stash that you keep between runs. Tho extraction shooters also usually include PvP during the runs, so maybe that's the distinction.

[–] v4ld1z@lemmy.zip 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Duskbloods is PvPvE, so maybe Duskbloods over Nightreign, then?

[–] Bbbbbbbbbbb@lemmy.world 4 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I think the biggest tell for extraction shooters is that you leave with loot and take said loot into the next world, and like you said, you have the chance of losing everything you enter with. I dont know if these 2 FS games have that specific mechanic

[–] v4ld1z@lemmy.zip 1 points 1 week ago

As pet their recent 10-minute video showing more gameplay and explaining details about the game, Nightreign seems to incorporate some sort of meta progression that you take with you across runs. Think upgrades to your character, for example

[–] codexarcanum@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Because they're 2D RPGs with randomized dungeons?

I hate what "genre" has become in games, entirely meaningless. Wtf does roguelike even mean anymore when it's being used to describe multiplayer lootbox shooters?

[–] rockerface@lemm.ee 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Literally the core feature of roguelikes is that you reset to base state upon death. Which is what OP described.

[–] codexarcanum@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

My dude, there is "literally" no standard definition. There was even a fucking conclave about it.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roguelike#Berlin_Interpretation

[–] rockerface@lemm.ee 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

If there's no standard definition, then I can apply whichever definition I want. What's your point?

[–] nimble@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 1 week ago

You also just said it was a core feature and based on the link they provided.... it is a "high value factor" which sounds like a core feature to me.

Losing items/ progress between deaths is the difference between roguelike and roguelite as least as far as I've ever seen it used. So imo it would absolutely be a core feature since if a game has meta progression then it is now roguelite.

Oh hey what do you know, the link they provided even tells you that you're right

To distinguish these from traditional roguelikes, such games may be referred to as "rogue-lite" or "roguelike-like

&

the term "rogue-lite" or "roguelike-like" has been used by some to distinguish these games that possess some, but not all, of the Berlin Interpretation features from those that exactly meet the Berlin roguelike definition.

So if people need a grading rubric to understand roguelikes then if the "core feature"(aka "high value factor") you describe is not there then it is a roguelite instead. Again that sounds awfully like a core feature to me

[–] nimble@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 1 week ago

Haven't played nightreign but i don't really see it. Resources in souls games are scarce but they aren't your lifeblood-- you always have melee attacks as a viable combat mechanism. So it's possible in souls games to ignore consumables completely. Whereas shooters your primary attacks are consumable. I think this whole "extraction" description focuses too much on the extraction element which is a plot point, not a mechanic-defining genre like roguelike, soulslike, etc.