this post was submitted on 29 Jun 2025
8 points (100.0% liked)

Doctor Who Social Club

339 readers
2 users here now

A community for discussing all things Doctor Who.


Rules

1 Be constructiveAll posts/comments must be thoughtful and balanced.


2 Be welcomingIt is important that everyone from newbies to longtime fans feel welcome, no matter their gender, sexual orientation, religion or race.


3 Be truthfulAll posts/comments must be factually accurate and verifiable. We are not a place for gossip, rumors, or manipulative or misleading content.


4 Be niceIf a polite way cannot be found to phrase what it is you want to say, don't say anything at all. Insulting or disparaging remarks about any human being are expressly not allowed.


5 SpoilersUtilize the spoiler system for any and all spoilers relating to the most recently-aired episode. Spoiler protection will not be granted to information that is out in the mainstream media.


6 Keep on-topicAll submissions must be directly about the DW franchise (the shows, movies, books, etc.). Off-topic discussions are welcome at c/Quarks.


7 MetaQuestions and concerns about moderator actions should be brought forward via DM.


Upcoming Episodes

Date Episode Title
05-10 DW 2x05 "The Story & the Engine"
05-17 DW 2x06 "The Interstellar Song Contest"
05-24 DW 2x07 "Wish World"
05-31 DW 2x08 "The Reality War"
TBA TWB 1x01 TBA

Episode Discussion Archive


Doctor Who Wiki


founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

Written by: Russell T Davies

Directed by: Keith Boak

top 5 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] SpaceScotsman@startrek.website 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I enjoy this episode, though it certainly has its problems. I took notes as I was watching. Lots to say.

The sub-plot of Rose having vanished for a year is a really nice idea, especially as she just up and left without saying anything to anyone. It is a useful way to set up the tension with MR ickey. It's a testament to his overall blandness that even when Rose comes back pretty much everyone forgets to tell him. Mickey in the tardis later gets a chance to flesh himself out a bit as what we would probably now call an open source intelligence guy. I think that the doctor works better when he's got a smart entourage he can bounce off, whether it's individuals like Mickey, SJS, or the modern unit crew with Kate. Mickey though never really felt particularly interesting as a character.

Some part of this episode have not aged well at all. The slaps (which the policeman present doesn't even try to intercede in) and a remark later 'you're so gay'. I get that this is the way people spoke, but still... Other parts though still hits me the way it did when I first watched it - During the crash scene Murray Golds soundtrack is fantastic, and the visuals aren't too bad considering how old this is.

The writing really gets the era right here - mid 00s, 24hr news, a few years after 9/11, after a major event this is exactly what people would be doing. The doctor as the one person in the room really paying attention while everyone else is chatting and gossiping is great. If this were rewritten for today, I wonder if everyone would be chatting, or if they'd all be shown doomscrolling instead.

Inside downing Street we met Harriet Jones for the first time. She seemed like such a grounded politician as a backbencher, it's a shame she ended up going mad with power. Reminds me a bit of Kier Starmer - starts off fairly innocuous, just trying to do the right thing, and then faced with actual responsibility starts to go a bit too hard down on protectionism.

The fart Jokes begin as soon as we enter downing street, and as juvenile as they are, it is mildly funny to see the camera cut immediately afterwards to show the on duty security guard in the corner of the stairwell, unable to move away. This might be the only time I actually found it funny. A later scene in the cabinet office is one of the worst for fart jokes and it goes on too much here to be funny, and completely ruins the tone of what should be a horrific scene.

To this day I'm still not sure how the aliens managed to kill the prime minister and subdue the entire chain of command - if they had the resources and were able to do that the rest of the setup seems kind of unnecessary. Does the whole UK chain of command / succession really boil down to these three? We get some hints, particularly when the general tries to impose martial law as to how things ought to be working, but it doesn't go anywhere. No deputy, no home sec, just straight to the sugar minister. And the cabinet we know are still available, they're just waiting to be "airlifted in", as if they wouldn't all immediately be jostling to get in.

The doctor being apparently unaware this is humanity's first contract moment is interesting : it's either retconning; or the doctor who started coming to earth in the 60s hates spoilers and just wants to follow earth's development in real time?

Rose getting the tardis key is different to how I remember watching this as a kid, I can now see its more like her getting to move into a new friends house rather than just access to a vehicle.

When Harriet encounters the open cabinet door as the invaders are leaving, we get my favourite pet peeve - an immensely secure area and they just leave the door unlocked and important documents lying on the table. Eyeroll.

In the hospital the pig reveal actually spooked me as a kid for some reason, it's laughable now. Poor animal.

On the design of the slitheen - The skinsuit idea is a pretty neat concept, a good twist on the changeling invader concept. The obvious zip we see in some of the shots is a bit silly though, and inconsistent. When we finally see the aliens I think their designs are really impressive. It's the first time we get a real big bad alien costume (after a few background ones in episode 2). The eyes are dead though, that's the big thing I wish they had done differently.

The overly dramatic phone call from Jackie to the helpline is great. It makes no sense that sirens would be going if like that in some random room at downing Street, but it makes for a good TV shot, and is a decent tool in showing how important the doctor is.

When Rose realises she's going to number 10 she seems elated. That one was always a bit weird to me - is that a place the average person dreams of visiting? I don't feel it has quite the prestige that say a royal household, the white house, or the palace des Élysée has.

This episode has a "next time" teaser, and honestly kind of defeats the cliffhanger ending. I always hated those, I'm glad when they get bumped either to the end credits or off entirely.

As a one of episode of doctor who this one has a lot of problems. But, in the context of being the first two-parter of the revival, and watching it as a kid years ago, it stuck with me. I loved the juxtaposition of aliens against the mundane every day life that goes on, and the behind the scenes of what governments would do in scenarios like this. And I think it was a formative experience for the kinds of disaster film and scifi drama i like now - less focus on the death and chaos and more on the logistics and the how and the why. Re watching it there are some things that stick out in a bad way but overall its still an enjoyable watch.

The writing really gets the era right here - mid 00s, 24hr news, a few years after 9/11, after a major event this is exactly what people would be doing.

Good point, and shame on me for not giving Trinity Wells the acknowledgement she deserves!

[–] ValueSubtracted@startrek.website 3 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Oh boy, it's the one with the farting aliens.

I don't care for this one at all. It's a very pure expression of RTD's "kid-friendly" vision of Doctor Who, but...it makes it kid-friendly by featuring farting aliens. No thanks.

But there's still good stuff! Pretty much everything about Rose's return is pretty great. Jackie's anger and relief after Rose has been missing for a year, Mickey's status as a suspected murderer, all good stuff. We get to meet Harriet Jones, MP for Flydale North, who's always a delight. We get to see UNIT, still with "United Nations" in their name. We also get to meet Toshiko Sato.

The broad strokes of the plot are interesting. A crashed UFO, faked by aliens not as a diversion, but as a trap for the council of Big Brains that would immediately convene. I like that a lot. I also liked the way the Doctor immediately drops his dismissiveness of ~~Ricky~~ Mickey as soon as he says something intelligent.

But at the end of the day, those farting aliens are always going to be there.

[–] vaguerant@fedia.io 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Agreed on all counts. Most of what occurs around the farting aliens is pretty solid, but they're not at all entertaining. They also play into some ugly tropes about fat people being disgusting. Oddly, I don't feel a lot of the episode is particularly appealing to children outside of the Slitheen. It's got some fairly "adult" stuff with Jackie, all the political goings-on, and multiple fairly long segments of people just watching the news.

There is that one odd moment of Rose telling the Doctor "You're so gay!" as they discuss the slap. It's hard to take much offense to it coming from the famously-gay Davies, but it's at least unexpected. Davies explained the inclusion in an email exchange with a fan:

Davies on Rose calling the Doctor "gay"Hi Alun,

Good point. It was a complicated moment which required a great deal of thought.

The simple answer is: that's how people talk. And although that's simple, it's very powerful. I can't imagine a proper drama which is couched in terms of how people should talk.

Second, the word is changing. This is an irreversible process beyond anyone's control. It seems to me that we're becoming people who complain about the use of the word gay, much as people used to complain about the word gay, because it no longer meant 'happy'. No words stay staticl.

But most importantly, you're right - there's a vital political issue burning away here, and you do nothing about those issues if you ignore them. I've put it right at the heart of BBC1 primetime. Put it this way: let's imagine a viewer who has, roughly, yours and my sensibilities. Let's call him A. Now, before that comment, there were millions of kids using the word 'gay' as an insult, and what was A doing about it? Probably nothing. Yes, there are activists out there, but most people don't, so A was left passive. Nothing changes. On the other hand, Rose says 'You're so gay', A objects, and - here's the crux - A DOES SOMETHING. He gets up off his seat. He tells his nearest and dearest that he objects. He might even go so far as to contact the author, to complain.

Fantastic. Good television isn't television which makes you smile all the time and agree. If it makes you stand up and object - especially where you weren't expecting it - then that's a brilliant and powerful thing. That's why it's important that the word comes from Rose; lovely, kind Rose (who's exactly the right age to be using that word in that context). If a villain had said it, then he's a villain, and therefore an idiot, so there's no problem. When the good guys say it, as they do, then that causes a problem. And that problem is good.

It's agitation. And it works. If one parent - watching a family show - objected about the usage of 'gay' in front of his or her kids; if one teacher thought that was wrong, that this pernicious insult has invaded even Doctor Who; if one man has gone to the effort of contacting a writer in order to tackle a vital subject, and will then take that debate into other areas of his life, then that is absolutely excellent. If Rose had said nothing, less would happen. You can't always make your point in life by saying the right thing and being nice (not in my opinion anyway, and unfortunately, I'm the writer!). You have to provoke.

And there's a long game at work here. Let's imagine, say, viewer B, who is an idiot. And B chuckles along in Beavis-and-Butthead style at Rose's comment, agreeing; he thinks, I like this show, I hate the gays, Doctor Who is good. Fine. So he keeps watching. And in a few weeks time, the Doctor gets a strapping, heroic male companion... who is clearly and resolutely bisexual. Viewer B's head implodes. My work is done.

Funnily enough, I was queueing up in Tesco's today, and the 12 y/o girl behind me in the queue called her 11 y/o brother a gayboy, in a venomous tone of voice. I turned round and said, if you call him a gayboy one more time, this gayboy is gonna smash your face in. Unsubtle, yes. I threatened a girl! But it worked. Activism isn't easy, but it's needed, so I'm delighted you wrote.

I'm glad you're enjoying the show, I hope you keep watching.

All the best,

Russell

tl;dr: That's how people of the time talked, not how he felt they should talk. He then goes into some contradictory arguments: that the word is changing and complaining about it now is no better than the people who complained when it changed from meaning "happy" ... but also that it is wrong and he included it in the episode in order to deliberately spark opposition to its use.

It eventually devolves into him "today" threatening to smash a 12 year-old girl's face in for calling her brother a "gayboy". I don't much know what to make of it. Is it activism for a 42-year-old man to threaten a child with violence? Weird stuff.

That quote is...really something. RTD has a habit of overexplaining things to the point of incomprehensibility, but that takes it to a new level.

I do think the basics of what he's getting at ring true - they certainly struggled a bit with "how much sexism should the Thirteenth Doctor encounter," and "how much racism should the Fifteenth Doctor encounter?" They both probably should have encountered more than they did, but if the story isn't about that, you run the risk of derailing the entire story. But if you include it "casually," as just a fact of the world, as they did in this case...that's not necessarily better. But maybe it's still worthwhile?

I don't think there's a right answer, but RTD sure managed to find a wrong one.

On this topic, I was certainly laughing right along with the show's depiction of Mickey-as-a-murder-suspect, but that has unsettling racial implications on its own, if you really interrogate the idea.