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Some people close to me had kidney stones and I was curious about how they were formed, which led me down this rabbit hole.
Some cultures have more exposure to oxalic acid in their foods. I looked up the oxalic content of various foods and noticed that one person I know appears to dislike fruit that has a high oxalic acid content. Perhaps some of us are able to detect it in some way?
This is just another scam, really
Could you elaborate? Is oxalic acid the scam, or oxalate dumping? The latter I think is not well understood and often self-diagnosed, so I definitely see problems with the term.
One problem with detecting oxalic acid is its not usually in the blood stream (i.e. waiting in the adipocytes)
I've only heard of people doing carnivore reporting Oxalate dumping. Though the protocol seems to be to introduce a small amount of oxalates in the diet to prevent dumping when inconvenient.
video summerizer
In this detailed and informative interview on the Low Carb Ancestral Living channel, host Pym Johnson revisits the topic of oxalates with expert Sally K. Norton, a well-known advocate and researcher on oxalate toxicity and healing. The conversation delves deep into the chemistry, physiology, and health implications of oxalates—naturally occurring compounds in many plants—and their impact on human health, especially in relation to chronic diseases, kidney stones, and systemic inflammation. Sally explains the dual nature of oxalates as acids and salts, their formation of nano- and micro-crystals in the body, and how these crystals can accumulate in various tissues causing oxidative stress, inflammation, and damage to organs such as kidneys, bones, joints, and glands.
The discussion also covers which foods are high in oxalates, including popular leafy greens, nuts, seeds, grains, and certain fruits like kiwi and raspberries, while emphasizing the importance of avoiding these for those sensitive or poisoned by oxalates. Sally explains why some plant foods historically considered healthy can be problematic due to their oxalate content, and shares practical advice on managing oxalate intake, including food preparation techniques and dietary choices.
Sally further discusses symptoms linked with oxalate poisoning, which range from joint pain, arthritis, skin issues, fungal infections, fatigue, migraines, neurological symptoms, to pelvic pain and urinary problems. She highlights the complexity of healing from oxalate toxicity, which can be prolonged and involve “healing reactions” such as flares in symptoms, exhaustion, and the necessity of adequate rest.
The interview also touches on the controversial topic of high-dose vitamin C and its relationship to oxalate production, the role of sex hormones in oxalate-related kidney stone risks, and the limitations of probiotics or gut microbiota modifications in fully resolving oxalate toxicity. Sally emphasizes the importance of mineral repletion, particularly through supplementation or mineral baths, to support detoxification and mitigate symptoms.
Finally, Sally talks about her upcoming book Toxic Superfoods, online support groups, and consultations, encouraging people to approach oxalate issues with informed caution, patience, and gradual dietary adjustments.
🔬 Oxalate Chemistry and Biological Impact: Oxalates exist as oxalic acid or oxalate salts, which can bind to minerals like calcium and magnesium to form tiny insoluble crystals. These crystals precipitate in body tissues, causing inflammation and oxidative stress that undermine cellular function, especially in mitochondria, connective tissue, and glands. This explains the widespread systemic effects beyond just kidney stones, including fatigue, joint pain, and neurological symptoms.
🥗 Dietary Sources and Evolutionary Mismatch: Many popular “healthy” plant foods contain high levels of bioavailable oxalates, which humans are not evolutionarily adapted to consume in large quantities. The presence of oxalates in seeds and fruits serves as plant defense “micro-weaponry” to deter herbivores. Modern diets rich in nuts, dark leafy greens, and gluten-free grains can inadvertently overload the body with oxalates, leading to chronic poisoning symptoms.
⚡ Oxalate Toxicity Mimics Chronic Illnesses: Symptoms of oxalate poisoning are often mistaken for autoimmune diseases, fibromyalgia, or other chronic syndromes. The immune system reacts to nano-crystals by causing inflammation in joints, connective tissues, bladder, and skin. This inflammation and oxidative stress interfere with cellular signaling, especially calcium signaling, which is critical for cell metabolism and repair.
🛑 Vitamin C Overuse Can Worsen Oxalate Load: Vitamin C metabolizes into oxalic acid, so excessive vitamin C intake—particularly intravenous high-dose therapy—can exacerbate oxalate crystal formation in tissues and veins, causing fibrosis and vascular damage. This is a caution against indiscriminate use of vitamin C supplements without considering oxalate toxicity risks.
🕰️ Healing is a Long-Term Process with Flare-Ups: Oxalate crystals lodged in bones, joints, and organs can take years to clear. Detoxification often triggers immune responses and symptom “healing reactions,” such as rashes, arthritis flares, headaches, and exhaustion. Understanding this pattern helps patients stay patient and avoid discouragement during recovery.
💧 Mineral Balance is Crucial for Prevention and Healing: Oxalates rob the body of essential minerals (calcium, magnesium, potassium), contributing to bone loss, kidney stones, and systemic dysfunction. Supplementing with mineral salts like potassium citrate, magnesium citrate, and using mineral baths can restore mineral balance, alkalinity, and prevent stone formation. Adjusting urinary pH and citrate levels is key to protecting kidney health during oxalate detox.
🌿 Gut Microbiome Interventions Are Insufficient Alone: While gut bacteria can degrade some oxalates, the complexity of the human microbiome and environmental insults prevent the microbiome from fully protecting against oxalate poisoning. Attempts to “fix” oxalate problems solely with probiotics or microbiome therapies have not succeeded clinically, emphasizing that dietary management and mineral support remain foundational.
The interview is a vital resource for anyone struggling with unexplained chronic symptoms, kidney stones, or those interested in the lesser-known impacts of diet on long-term health. It empowers listeners to take control of their health by recognizing oxalate toxicity as a real and addressable problem with proper knowledge, patience, and support.
Just finished the episode, it was interesting, especially when she went through the different manifestations people experience. I did take a look at pubmed, not too much research outside of stones being published.
I am happy that my zero-carb approach avoids this entirely.
Vitamin C Overuse Can Worsen Oxalate Load: Vitamin C metabolizes into oxalic acid, so excessive vitamin C intake—particularly intravenous high-dose therapy—can exacerbate oxalate crystal formation in tissues and veins, causing fibrosis and vascular damage. This is a caution against indiscriminate use of vitamin C supplements without considering oxalate toxicity risks.
I was mildly horrified to learn of this because I was given high doses of vitamin C as a child to "bolster my immune system."
I also recently learned that sugar reduces the body's ability to uptake vitamin C, and the body is also able to recycle vitamin C quite efficiently, so there is no need to supplement vitamin C since you only need a small amount from your diet.
Correct! glucose and vitamin c both compete with the GLUT-4 transporter.... if you dont have excessive glucose, then you don't have excessive competition. This is why the zero-carb diet avoids scurvy!
Better summary:
One trick doctors hate! your supposedly good diet is making you sick! Buy my book and supplements!
Trust me, I have been to university! Don't ask for the paperwork to prove it though :p
she isn't selling supplements, just the recommendation to avoid oxalates in your food.
If you want paperwork:
If you don't want to buy her book, or if your too lazy to pirate it, and you can't be bothered to watch the interview.... I'll give you the TLDR: Oxalates kinda suck, but most people don't care until they get a kidney stone. If you are concerned then don't eat food with oxalates in it.
Then drink, too much salt and calcium but not enough water are nothing new. In the interview she either doesn't seem to understand, or she enjoys misrepresenting things. The recommended daily dosis aren't difficult to find. Around 2.1 grams. But this lady is calling 0.073 grams a "massive spike".
kidney stones are calcium oxalates (typically). I'm glad you have solved kidney stones! Just drink more water.
Bruh, this is not news. And with the exception of a rare genetic mutation where your body makes a heck of a lot of the stuff, you won't be experiencing toxicity either.
And hey, I've also solved obesity! Just eat less!
Really tho, this woman is misrepresenting the issue
The title has some questionable sounding terms in it, I agree. But the content of the video is not sensational and the existence of oxalic acid in some foods is indisputable. Especially if you ask my friends that have kidney stones...
To address your second point, Sally Norton does have academic credentials. They are listed in the video description:
Sally holds a nutrition degree from Cornell University and a Master’s of Public Health degree from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. She worked in the field of Integrative Medicine at UNC Medical School as Project Manager of an NIH-Funded project for expanding medical education to include more awareness of holistic and alternative healing arts.
Sally has published popular articles in academic and popular journals, and appeared in numerous interviews (including with Dr. Joseph Mercola) discussing the widespread but little-known harmful effects of oxalates in our food.
I have the impression that she started her study in nutrition because she experienced a lot of poor health caused by oxalates, but please correct me if I'm wrong. As a result, even if anecdotal, I find her experiences fascinating because they seem so genuine to me.
I listened to the numbers, looked some of the subjects up on websites of a locsl universities, noticed the conflict of interest, and I think she's probably not got proper intentions here
