this post was submitted on 15 Jul 2026
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Finally got around to actually subjecting myself to AI 2040. I started writing this up for the stubsack then realized I had accidentally put together a lot of words and our previous discussion on the subject had slipped into last week's sack. That said, let's start from the top.

Having put humanity on this path, the AI companies find it acceptable. But most people don’t. Forget thinking about his legacy—the President is starting to think about what’ll happen to him after he leaves office and the world gets transformed

That's not how American Politics works. I mean it's a bad quote because the dumb is smeared across a vast expanse of boring prose, but the idea that any election can be summed up on one single solitary issue is ridiculously naive. Local variance and immediate context matter a lot and pretending otherwise makes you a hack.

The President announces that the US will pursue international cooperation to avoid an imminent intelligence explosion.

That's not how international cooperation works. I hope I'm overly cynical here but I think that the lessons of international coordination on everything from land mines and chemical munitions to crimes against humanity and nuclear non-proliferation should be relevant here. The efficacy of the various climate change pledges and agreements are also relevant.

Both sides can still use datacenters for running AIs that already exist (i.e. inference), but they will retrofit each other’s datacenters with devices to verify that they aren’t being used for new training runs

That's not how IT infrastructure or independent verification work. First off, if you try and tell any competent IT security department to stick a network tap that sees all their inbound and outbound traffic and directly sends it to their competitors you're gonna get laughed out of the room, basilisk be damned. But let's also not forget that "how do I trust that your validators aren't going to demand to tour unrelated infrastructure to collect unrelated military intelligence" has historically been a massive sticking point in, say, nuclear nonproliferation talks.

The Consortium countries come up with a simple high-level framework: we’ll agree to let each other see all the AI research. Then, if we don’t like something someone is doing, we’ll talk about it and perhaps agree to ban it.

That's not how regulation works. This is a classic rationalist fallacy that we see repeated throughout the piece of assuming that ultimately if you express the argument properly everyone will agree on the right thing, and that the differences in what (e.g.) different countries don't like to see done are somehow going to resolve factually to everyone independently coming to the same conclusion. Otherwise you have what is effectively a race to the bottom where even within "the consortium" everyone just migrates their operations to whoever has the most lax regulations that lets them do what they want even at the cost of breaking the world.

AI workloads can be split into research and development (the process of building new AIs) and inference (the use of the existing AIs). In our proposal, research is almost entirely transparent, while inference is still private.

That's not how network monitoring works. How do you trust that I'm not running training data on inference channels unless you're monitoring everything. Remember, we're not just concerned with actually identifying wrongdoing, we're trying to establish beyond a doubt that wrongdoing isn't happening. Also let's note that this argument assumes that continuous learning is impossible, when "actively learning long-term lessons from your experiences" is a pretty large part of human-level intelligence, much less the kind of super intelligence they're concerned about.

The result will be a competitive market for AI, in which consumers of AI services have many options to choose from and excellent visibility into what they are buying.

That's not how economics works. The entire concept of patent law revolves around making sure that you don't lose the competitive advantage that comes from investing in improved products and processes because if you don't do that then there's no market incentive to improve things. If we're gonna throw out market incentives why aren't we throwing out capitalism altogether again? But even if we set that aside, given how capital-intensive the AI training game (supposedly) is, the big players are going to be able to take advantage of economies of scale and use the resulting efficiency to outcompete smaller shops, leading to concentration of power. We saw this happen with crypto mining pools, and should expect the same to happen basically anywhere that more returns are bought direct with more money.

To accomplish this, they agree to build the datacenters in the third-party countries least secure against their rival’s military intervention

That's not how international agreements work. While it's true that during the Cold War we saw third-party aligned countries hosting nuclear weapons, this was because they directly benefited from being under their ally's nuclear umbrella and the associated improvements in relations. Like, Europe hosted American nukes not because they had an agreement, they had an agreement because hosting American nukes meant Russia was less likely to Leeroy Jenkins their way through the Fulda gap. Imagine telling (West) Germany that they should host Soviet nuclear infrastructure specifically so that in the event of a breakdown in relations they can be targeted by their allies for violence. I know that there's a kind of neo-realism in international relations these days that likes to assume that non-superpowers don't actually have agency, but I promise you this isn't the case.

The attitude towards safety flips. The incidents of AI misbehavior, plus the fact that AI is so deeply deployed into the world economy, plus the transparency into AI research, plus the breathing room to process what’s happening, all combine to dramatically shift the burden of proof.

That's not how public opinion works! At this point we're firmly in science fiction, but I think it's significant that part of the plan is once again "then everyone realizes we were right all along and agrees to go along with our plan with minimal friction".

It escalates to the President. He calls Xi Jinping. They bargain and threaten. They yell at each other. Ultimately Xi agrees to ban this type of thing if the US does too. Details are left to the respective regulators to hash out.

That's not how negotiations work. I've wanted to talk about this before but couldn't find a clear point to throw it in, so here it is: are we gonna assume that literally every other issue or conflict in the world other than AI regulation is going to magically cease to exist? Was this part of everyone magically agreeing with everything Eliezer Yudkowsky - who totally isn't a cult leader - wrote is completely correct? Like, are we expecting the negotiations about chip manufacturing in Taiwan not to run into friction due to the ongoing dispute about Taiwanese sovereignty? And that's just the most obvious example, ignoring the energy crisis brought about by the disruption in Hormuz and a thousand other areas where disagreement is inevitable and can't simply be wallpapered over by two executive leaders yelling at each other about it.

Now that the United States is limited in the number of total robots it can build, it must choose how to allocate this capacity between companies. They decide to use the free market via a cap-and-trade system. Permits to build robots or compute are sold to the highest bidder and can be freely traded.

That's not how the financial system works. Okay the cap-and-trade solution here is cringe neoliberal realism, but I think the kind of numbers they're describing merit a reality check of their own. Like, if that share of the overall economy is entirely driven by AI then from the perspective of a normal family trying to buy food and pay rent I'm not sure how you wouldn't see massively disruptive inflation. Citizen's dividend or not. And while I'm loathe credit mainstream economists, I also can't see how a dramatic increase in that dividend like they talk about several paragraphs later doesn't similarly crater the value of money since nothing that AI is revolutionizing is really impacting the kinds of stuff that people would be buying save that there's more of it and that people are no longer being paid to produce it. Also from a political economy perspective the way this twists things is really dark. Like, if your industry accounts for three-quarters of government revenues then you basically are the government no matter what anyone says. And that's pretty goddamn bleak if you don't own an AI company. Even accepting the science fiction premise the only alternatives are complete capture of the state by AI companies or the nationalization of those companies by the state. Either option, combined with the existing social dislocation, could arguably spark a civil war or revolution. But then I guess we would have to acknowledge that neoliberalism isn't God's perfect economic regime, which isn't possible to do here.

It’s fine for AIs to get better at using valid arguments and evidence to convince people of things for the right reasons. That kind of persuasion is asymmetric: it works much better when the argument pushes towards the truth.

That's not how the postmodern condition works. (Yes I am going to keep pushing this bit past it's limits until this dead horse starts walking and becomes funny again.) Evidence, argument, and truth itself contain an inherently subjective element that means that we can't nearly separate "good" arguments for rationally advancing a series of syllogisms from "bad" arguments rooted in personal charisma or authority or whatever else the "argumentum ad X" crowd is going on about these days. Truth is not a viable value in its own right, and pretending otherwise just serves to reinforce the social and political systems that can decide how truth is understood at the present moment. In their sci fi Dreamland, that would be either the US and Chinese governments or the CEOs of AI companies, and lots of people are already really mad at them now even before all the sci fi nonsense starts kicking in.

Everything after this point is pure science fiction, and of a kind that isn't even interesting. Good science fiction uses the speculative technology or world to interrogate something about reality. What does it mean to have a perfect simulacrum of a human being that nonetheless isn't one? How much power should we afford to corporations in an attempt to make miracles happen? Would you still love the god-king if he was a worm? This instead tries to use it to argue why we should ignore reality entirely. The utopia they outline is not meaningfully connected to the policies and values they advocate for, and those policies themselves are fundamentally based on a fiction about how the world actually functions.

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[–] scruiser@awful.systems 1 points 44 minutes ago

I read through it myself, but I was too busy laughing at the absurd parts (secret Chinese data centers inside mountains) and suspending disbelief at the overall premise to track all the individually nonsensical bits.

That’s not how international cooperation works.

They also completely ignore the fact that the US has burned away half a century of soft power and (relative) credibility. A lot of Scott's (and the other AI:2027/2040 authors) readers are Trumpers or at least so libertarian-brain-rotted they view Trump as not that bad a tradeoff, so it's pretty obvious to me why they would avoid dwelling on this little problem for their scenario. (I think this is also lowkey why the put the scenario off until 2029, even their insane imaginations can't imagine international cooperation under Trump, but they don't want to draw attention to this.)

That’s not how economics works.

Yeah, everyone is somehow superrich because carefully limited AIs are producing so much value? Even with the lesswrong favorite trope of magic nanotech (which I was disappointed to see AI: 2040 fail to include), equitable distribution is an extreme problem.

nothing that AI is revolutionizing is really impacting the kinds of stuff that people would be buying save that there’s more of it and that people are no longer being paid to produce it

I actually know the rationalist canon answer to this from other crap Scott has posted! He expects humanoid robots to takeoff exponentially basically, with an initial bootstrapping of buying some car companies' manufacturing lines solely off the insane valuations of the robot companies.

and of a kind that isn’t even interesting

It is also boring because there is not enough magic-scifi super tech, or competing rival God-AGIs playing 40 dimensional chess against each other as they jockey for power and control over the humans, but your complaints are also true!

utopia they outline is not meaningfully connected to the policies and values they advocate for

Their doom/salvation scenario really needs centralized planning acting for the common good to land on the salvation side, and they are deeply allergic to the idea, hence all the complicated neoliberal workarounds.

[–] BioMan@awful.systems 2 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

Awww, but I like the pure science fiction.

I am most amazed at two aspects... how to put it:

One is just, they don't know what they are and what the universe is. The idea that things downstream of things like us can push around galaxies never ceases to amaze me. I felt the same way watching the movie Interstellar. They were using chemical rockets to navigate around a supermassive black hole. The gravitational potential between places they occupied in that film was a third of their rest mass. Chemistry means nothing there. FUSION means nothing there.

(to say nothing of the fact that if interstellar travel were possible there would already be replicators and an ecology throughout the universe, but that's another story)

The second is, things happen because of ideas and agreements rather than actions. You can speak into existence billion year plans for what happens to whole galaxies, and it happens because that is what you said. Laws exist because a bunch of people continue to agree that it's better for them to act like they do than to do what they CAN do. This is a universe without interactions, without agency of anything but the rich weirdos steering the AI god, without for lack of a better word ecology emerging from the interactions of many agents and resource constraints and capacities.

[–] scruiser@awful.systems 1 points 58 minutes ago

Awww, but I like the pure science fiction.

Even as sci-fi, Ai: 2040 is lackluster! Where is the classic lesswrong trope of drexler-style nanotech? Where are the cybernetic augmentations!?

The second is, things happen because of ideas and agreements rather than actions. You can speak into existence billion year plans for what happens to whole galaxies, and it happens because that is what you said.

It is the same flaw that underlies the cryptobros delusions about blockchains and NFTs. You can make some cryptography ledger, it doesn't mean anyone actually follows it or that the ledger tracks reality.

[–] Architeuthis@awful.systems 4 points 11 hours ago (3 children)

Siskind just posted a follow up to his coverage of ai2040, apparently he's having a bit of a hard time selling his crowd on the really obvious totalitarian implications of instituting a global surveillance system to track and remotely disable chipsets to make sure rogue elements can't secretly conjure the robot god prematurely.

It's important too, chip registration is a big part of the ??? item in the to-do list, right before "China and US passionately french kiss, agree to pause AI research"

[–] scruiser@awful.systems 2 points 56 minutes ago

apparently he’s having a bit of a hard time selling his crowd on the really obvious totalitarian implications of instituting a global surveillance system to track and remotely disable chipsets

I thought I would agree with his libertarian audience about this much at least, but reading their comments... some of the angles they take and line of argument they make actually makes me more in favor of totalitarian dystopian regulation on computer chips.

[–] BioMan@awful.systems 3 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago)

Comments in FAVOR of billionaires being those who seize control of the entire universe (flksdjflkdfjlsdjfl) at the expense of everyone else (!) are appearing.

Land reform / redistribution is always popular with the populi, but per your other point, unless you somehow forbid them from selling or leasing it, it will inevitably end up in the hands of those better able to use those resources pretty shortly. And I will argue that this is a good thing, at least in a capitalist and non-coercive society - much like people think of heiresses leaving their floofy little dogs mansions and million dollar annual stipends as wasteful, leaving an equal proportion of the cosmic endowment with a bunch of v1.2 murder chimps who were so unsuccessful that they couldn't even buy any of it is a colossal waste of that matter/energy. Much like land today is much more valuable to people / governments who have money, the cosmic endowment will be no different.

Today we waste something like 99. nine 9's percent of our sun's energy. If we're the only conscious and intelligent life in the universe, every other star is wasting 100% of their energy. That energy is going to be similarly wasted in the hands of average people, just like the mansions and stipends are wasted on the dogs.

"Well lease it out and profit share!" I bet you're saying. But what will a base human even DO with that energy? It's like the dog. Most "regular" people who remain human will be eaten by digital Infinite Jests, where they can the be tippy top of made up status hierarchies and live out their wildest, meaningless dreams 24/7. You probably barely need $10k a year to do that in terms of matter energy budgets.

Sure, let's guarantee a really generous UBI, Scotts $1-$2M per year in today's wealth equivalent. That's fair. But the cosmic endowment is many, many orders of magnitude more than that, and allocating it to a bunch of floofy dog equivalents is a huge waste.

[–] YourNetworkIsHaunted@awful.systems 3 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

On one hand I agree that in a lot of ways our current tech surveillance regime looks like the kind of orwellian nightmare that people are raising red flags about. I'm admittedly less terrified by this than I am frustrated at how quickly and easily these systems get assembled when it comes to protecting shareholders from potentially unfavorable market conditions like "people using the software they purchased and installed on their computer in a way we didn't expect". Like, the US can't get it's shit together to do basically anything about domestic terrorism to the point where elementary schools are having domestic terror drills in order to feel like they're doing literally anything to acknowledge the problem, but God forbid OpenAI has to acknowledge their product's risk of aiding those terrorists when they're trying to get their IPO off the ground.

But also I think Scott is hilariously uninformed about how in-depth the kind of monitoring systems would need to be in order to function trans nationally and not be subject to individual jurisdiction (because otherwise the only one with authority to go after the secret illegal chinese AI bunker project would be China and that's a non-starter. As I said in the OP I think this combined with the level of transparency that they're discussing would basically amount to opening up all the books and internal communications directly to your competitors whether on a corporate or national level, which makes it a non-starter.

[–] Architeuthis@awful.systems 2 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago)

Scott is hilariously uninformed

Elsewhere he is comparing their orwelian chipset distribution control scheme to health inspectors making sure supermarkets don't sell spoiled milk. He just says whatever as long as he thinks it'll help convince more people than it drives away, and his fanbase goes along with it because they think that's how you get to be the normie whisperer.

This makes me feel there really is no telling what actual agenda the rationaltruists' would enact if they ever get to dictate policy.

[–] Architeuthis@awful.systems 8 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago) (2 children)

Enjoyed the writeup, thanks for gazing into the abyss!

This is a classic rationalist fallacy that we see repeated throughout the piece of assuming that ultimately if you express the argument properly everyone will agree on the right thing

This is complementary to their heterodoxy fetish, leading to fringe or outright bonkers but excruciatingly formalistic positions routinely sleight-of-handing themselves into prominence in the movement.


It’s fine for AIs to get better at using valid arguments and evidence to convince people of things for the right reasons. That kind of persuasion is asymmetric: it works much better when the argument pushes towards the truth.

That’s not how the postmodern condition works

That's just rationalists believing that once you amass enough IQ/Mana points you unlock the mind control spell. Basically if you aren't buying what the great-men-of-history-du-jour are selling the AIs will cast domination on you for the greater good.


Eliezer Yudkowsky - who totally isn’t a cult leader

He is definitely a cult enabler and a huge cult beneficiary, but I don't think I've ever seen evidence he could lead shit to fuck.

[–] BioMan@awful.systems 2 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

Oh Yud has DEFINITELY taken advantage of his followers like a cult leader.

[–] Architeuthis@awful.systems 2 points 1 hour ago

Yeah, I guess I'm splitting hairs, cult leader is a very open ended job description after all.

[–] CinnasVerses@awful.systems 2 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

I think Yud does not want the responsibility. LessWrong and Effective Altruism attracted so many people, and he discovered that trying to manage the communities was too much work, so he just tweets and publishes fanfic. This is convenient for his fans because they can pick and chose which of his ideas are the Real Yud Thought.

[–] Architeuthis@awful.systems 2 points 1 hour ago

Also he seems to be the opposite of charismatic.