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I'm in a place a lot of people get trapped in: lost in 4 or 8 bar loop hell.

Whether I'm sampling or arranging chords and melodies purely with synths, I'm generally able to come up with really catchy loops but I nearly always hit a wall face first when it comes to expanding on what I've created.

The laziest approach to this (and one I kind of default to) is to just keep adding elements to the original loop (add some hats after a while, add another synth playing an arpeggio off to the right with the gain low, etc) , but this just leaves me with a really heavily dressed up version of the loop by the end - at its core, it's just the same exact melody for 32 or 64 bars or whatever with a bunch of crap that's been slowly tacked on over time.

Alternately, I'll remove elements or remove the drums for a few bars... these things can be nice and are certainly very useful techniques for general variation, but they don't tackle the core problem: creating actual melodic variation in what I'm working on.

Interested in hearing your tips and tricks for switching up melodies.

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[-] doom_and_gloom@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 year ago

Removing elements is not quite variation but it is a very good technique. If I have a really busy melody/arp/progression, I'll cut out some notes and use the reduced versions in the leadup to foreshadow the full element.

Call and response is a classic. If you have 2 or 4 bars you can make it the call (part A) and then add something new for 2/4 bars as the response (part B). You then have the option of keeping A relatively static, and adding variation to part B. Because A will act as an ostinato, grounding the listener back in the motif with each call, you can sometimes make each B drastically different from each other and it will still work.

It also helps to know your theory, so you know why what you wrote works the way it does. From there you can make tweaks - you might have one melody pulling from 7th chords and another iteration of it based on major triads, or you might have your cadence resolve to a V here and a I there, or prevent it from resolving after 4 bars and then repeating it to resolve at 8 bars (doubling the length of the element).

More and more what I've learned, is that music production is work - and that slamming your head against the keyboard isn't a bad thing, it's what you're committing yourself to when you sit down to write a new song. But then you get the elements in place and everything feels magical and you forget how rough the start was. So sometimes you might just have to start manually and randomly wiggling notes around, and that is a legitimate part of the process.

One last thing, if you have 8 bars of melody or rhythm and need another 8 that matches it, try to work out the core elements of the original 8 - where does the beat fall, rests, where are the accents, which notes are just filler, etc. Note where upward/downward runs start/stop. Particularly the accents and rests. And then write your second 8 bars listening to the just the rhythm of the accents or something else super barebones like that. You can entirely copy where the accents and things are, or you might selectively change them for effect. But keeping those core elements like accents and rests in place will help the second 8 sound like it belongs with the first 8.

[-] Shadowbait@waveform.social 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

First off, instead of one loop I try to have two main loops/themes/ideas that I alternate between, often called A and B sections. Think of it like the verse and chorus in a pop or rock song - usually different melodies and chord progressions, but they need to feel like one follows logically from the other. I'll also usually have a "bridge" section - something different that only happens once.

Each time I repeat the A or B section, I try to change it up a bit. One strategy I'm trying lately is to use different synth sounds for each repetition, and then make subtle changes to better fit the new sound. I.e. I might change from short staccato notes to more sustained notes, but following the same general up and down path.

Adding or changing harmonies is another good strategy. For a dramatic shift, change the key from minor to major, or maybe just transpose everything up by a fifth. There are more advanced techniques for reharmonizing that I don't understand well enough to describe.

[-] _bug0ut@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

So my issue is more about figuring out how to construct the "B" to my "A," so to speak. On the side, I'm trying to pick up some music theory but my goal with this post was to see if anyone had some easy-to-digest/quick tips and tricks to get that "B" section going. I've managed to do this a grand total of like 2 times. I relied heavily on the arrangement of the track I was sampling, though, so you could probably call it cheating lol

The track I specifically have in mind was more of an A/B/C type of setup if you don't count the intro bit: https://soundcloud.com/user-155672358-440919887/dope-as-fuck-1?si=3b8636bb2f5343fcbe8bd71030f49390&utm_source=clipboard&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharing *EDIT for clarity: any brass you hear in this track is sampled, the drum arrangement and bassline are me)

Ideally, I'm looking for tips on how to either accomplish this with my OWN melodies (made with synth VSTs or whatever) or how to decide on a direction to head in if I'm trying to build on top of samples. The last couple paragraphs of your response are definitely some good pointers I'll keep in mind, so thank you.

[-] chunter@waveform.social 2 points 1 year ago

My rule of thumb is to have 3 ideas before I call something a song, but if one of the ideas is weak, I may eliminate it and still have 2 ideas.

Instead of trying to come up with variations on a looping idea, I'll contrast 3 different loops. It's okay if it sounds like you're switching from one song to another. Try to avoid repeating anything more than once. The third repeat legitimized, but it also causes the idea to disappear in the listener's mind.

this post was submitted on 06 Jul 2023
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