SovietReporter

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[–] SovietReporter@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 1 month ago

I haven’t read about Allende, and just watched a couple of videos that mentioned his project. But based on what those videos said, it sounds like he wanted to do a similar process of what Che proposed, by using computers, yes

 

It’s from the book, The End to the Beginning.

[–] SovietReporter@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

I just found it today and thought it was worth sharing in case other people haven’t seen it either

[–] SovietReporter@lemmygrad.ml 8 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

After Che left Cuba, they used the soviet model which had some benefits and allowed Cuba to enter the soviet trading system which brought even more benefits, but then that model had to be abandoned because what Che said would happen did happen: corruption, individualism, petit bourgeois consciousness, inefficiencies etc because the soviet model had a big emphasis on material incentives, bonuses if you over fulfilled the plan, etc

A bit after Che left they implemented the Soviet system, then got rid of it the 80s, then the special period happened after the socialist bloc started collapsing.

Under the Soviet system firms literally operated like businesses

Che's Balanced Flows System planning was an attempt at firms would simply be transferring the goods between each other, their finances would be managed centrally by the central bank etc

His idea was that firms in the country wouldn’t be buying and selling from each other and therefore the Cuban economy would be ‘one giant factory’. There would still be stuff sold to consumers, still be wages, money etc

[–] SovietReporter@lemmygrad.ml 24 points 1 month ago (22 children)

No, they had problems like underdeveloped agriculture, a peasantry, lack of infrastructure, access to things like electricity, etc. These are problems that Cuba, China, Russia, etc., had. Market socialism is the path they’ve chosen to develop. So the question for them is, how do they get these things while maintaining socialism? It is encouraging development because it’s creating infrastructure, etc. You can argue that you need elements of capitalism to develop.

Because socialism comes from capitalism.

But, as Che argued, things like the law of value, material incentives, bonuses, etc., undermine socialist consciousness.

Which is why he was opposed to the Soviet system.

And the USSR collapsing and the effects it had on Cuba after they adopted it proved him right.

I mean, China had those counterrevolutionary protests in Tienanmen Square in 1989. So, China is socialist, but if they are not careful, their market socialism can devolve into capitalism.

 

Guevara agreed that the law of value remained under socialism but argued that measures taken by the Revolution to undermine the capitalist market meant that the law could not serve as the dynamic catalyst to productivity and efficiency in the same way as it did under capitalism.[8] Socialisation of the means of production and distribution had 'blunted' the tools of capitalism.[9] Marx described a commodity as a good which changes ownership, from the producer to the consumer. Consistent with this definition, Guevara insisted that products transferred between state-owned enterprises did not constitute commodities because when they were transferred from one state factory to another there was no change in ownership. The state itself should be considered as one big enterprise.[10] For Guevara commodity-exchange relations between factories threatened transition, via 'market socialism', to capitalism. He stressed central planning and state regulation as substitutes to such mechanisms.

Enphasis on:

For Guevara commodity-exchange relations between factories threatened transition, via 'market socialism', to capitalism. He stressed central planning and state regulation as substitutes to such mechanisms.

Why develop? We understand that the capitalist categories are retained for a time and that the length of this period cannot be predetermined, but the characteristics of the period of transition are those of a society that is throwing off its old bonds in order to move quickly into the new stage. The tendency should be, in our opinion, to eliminate as fast as possible the old categories, including the market, money, and, therefore, material interest - or, better, to eliminate the conditions for their existence.'

It was partly because material incentives became the main way to motivate people, the relationship between firms was set up in a way that it was about each firm being responsible for its own profits and losses, they had to purchase their inputs etc, and it encouraged firms to do dodgy things so they could be like “oh look we beat our target, bonus pls” etc

His planning system did have some material incentives but his idea was that it would be phased out and people should be motivated using moral incentives. To him the law of value should ‘fade away’

Using his analysis, the USSR didn’t collapse because it had a planned economy. It collapsed because its planning system undermined socialist consciousness, its leadership lost touch with the masses, and it developed a class who had a material interest in undermining the state, due to keeping the law of value.

https://www.marxists.org/subject/economy/authors/yaffeh/che-critic.htm

Edit: After Che left Cuba, they used the soviet model which had some benefits and allowed Cuba to enter the soviet trading system which brought even more benefits, but then that model had to be abandoned because what Che said would happen did happen: corruption, individualism, petit bourgeois consciousness, inefficiencies etc because the soviet model had a big emphasis on material incentives, bonuses if you over fulfilled the plan, etc

A bit after Che left they implemented the Soviet system, then got rid of it the 80s, then the special period happened after the socialist bloc started collapsing.

Under the Soviet system firms literally operated like businesses

Che's Balanced Flows System planning was an attempt at firms would simply be transferring the goods between each other, their finances would be managed centrally by the central bank etc

His idea was that firms in the country wouldn’t be buying and selling from each other and therefore the Cuban economy would be ‘one giant factory’. There would still be stuff sold to consumers, still be wages, money etc

[–] SovietReporter@lemmygrad.ml 9 points 1 month ago

I don't have the time or patience to be a reddit moderator. Those lads are built differently

[–] SovietReporter@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Damn, that capitalism

 
  1. ⁠The Halfa massacre of 1937
  2. ⁠The Jerusalem Massacre of 1937
  3. ⁠The Balad al-Sheikh massacre in 1939
  4. ⁠The Haifa massacre of 1939
  5. ⁠The Haifa massacre of 1947
  6. ⁠The Abbasiya massacre of 1947
  7. ⁠The Al-Khisas massacre in 1947
  8. ⁠The Bab al-Amud massacre in 1947
  9. ⁠The Jerusalem Massacre of 1947
  10. ⁠The Sheikh Burek massacre in 1947
  11. ⁠The Al-Sheikh massacre in 1947
  12. ⁠The Jaffa Massacre of 1948
  13. ⁠The Al-Saraya Al-Arabeya massacre in 1948
  14. ⁠The Semiramis massacre of 1948
  15. ⁠The Ramla Massacre of 1948
  16. ⁠The Yazur massacre in 1948
  17. ⁠The Tabra-Tulkarem massacre of 1948
  18. ⁠The Jerusalem Massacre of 1948
  19. ⁠The Deir Yassin massacre of 1948
  20. ⁠The Abu Shusha massacre of 1948
  21. ⁠The Tantura Massacre 1948
  22. ⁠The Lydda Massacre 1948
  23. ⁠The Saliha massacre of 1948
  24. ⁠The Al-Dawayima massacre of 1948
  25. ⁠The Al-Husayniyya massacre in 1948
  26. ⁠The Abu Kabir massacre of 1948
  27. ⁠The Cairo Train Massacre, Haifa 1948
  28. ⁠The Qalunya Massacre 1948
  29. ⁠The Nasir Al-Din massacre in 1948
  30. ⁠This Tiberias Massacre 1948
  31. ⁠The Haifa Massacre 1948
  32. ⁠The Ayn Al-Zaytoun Massacre 1948
  33. ⁠The Safe Massacre 1948
  34. ⁠The Beit Daras Massacre 1948
  35. ⁠The Qibya Massacre 1953
  36. ⁠The Khan Yunis Massacre 1956
  37. ⁠The Jerusalem Massacre 1967
  38. ⁠The Bahro Al Baquar Massacre 1972
  39. ⁠The Sabra and Shatila Massacre 1982
  40. ⁠The Al Aqsa Mosque Massacre 1990
  41. ⁠The Ibrahimi Mosque Massacre 1994
  42. ⁠The Jenin Refugee Camp Massacre 2002
  43. ⁠The Gaza Massacre 2008
  44. ⁠The Gaza Massacre 2009
  45. ⁠The Gaza Massacre 2012
  46. ⁠The Gaza Massacre 2014
  47. ⁠The Gaza Border Massacre 2018
  48. ⁠The Gaza Border Massacre 2019
  49. ⁠The Gaza Wehda Street Massacre 2021
  50. ⁠The Gaza Massacre 2022
  51. ⁠The Jenin Refugee Camp Massacre 2023
  52. ⁠The Gaza Genocide 2023
  53. ⁠The Gaza Genocide 2024
  54. ⁠To be continued…

PS The full list can be accurately tracked back to the 1800’s.

 

📅 Wednesday, June 18 🔗 Find or register an action in your city at http://answercoalition.org/iran

Already, the Trump administration has backed the brutal Israeli bombardment that has caused widespread civilian casualties -- carried out with an arsenal paid for with our taxpayer dollars. But now, Trump may be on the verge of ordering direct U.S. strikes that would escalate the war to unspeakably dangerous new heights. U.S. "boots on the ground" could easily be drawn in, and war could ripple across the entire region or even the whole world. We need to take a stand and prevent this from becoming a reality!

WE SAY NO WAR ON IRAN!

 
[–] SovietReporter@lemmygrad.ml 8 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Do you have the source?

[–] SovietReporter@lemmygrad.ml 9 points 1 month ago (1 children)

It is a Russian Media

[–] SovietReporter@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 1 month ago

Have a rebuttal?

[–] SovietReporter@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 1 month ago

Thanks, do you have good sources that I could use next time for these kinds of arguments?

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