ThinkPad

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IBM and Lenovo ThinkPad laptop enthusiasts!

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TL;DR: On the xx30 series, the 4MB "top" chip is easily recoverable, even if you fail to make a backup. If you install the 1vyrain BIOS or use 1vyrain to install Coreboot, only the 4MB chip is affected. However, if you apply me_cleaner to the 8MB "bottom" chip and lose the backup, you cannot return to the stock BIOS!

A few years ago, I had wanted to try out Coreboot (using pre-built "Skulls" images), but didn't want to bother with buying and learning how to use a hardware chip programmer. So I used 1vyrain, as mentioned here: https://lemmy.ml/post/23117122

1vyrain just overwrites the 4MB chip with the supplied image. The 8MB chip is unaffected. Nothing on the 4MB chip is machine-specific. So if you can still boot into Linux but no longer want Coreboot, the recovery is trivial:

  1. Boot Linux with the kernel parameter iomem=relaxed
  2. Install flashrom if needed
  3. Get a copy of the stock 4MB image (I'd recommend v2.60): https://github.com/xy-tech/x330-bios/tree/main/stock/original
  4. Flash the image: sudo flashrom -p internal -i bios --ifd -w /path/to/v2.60.bin --noverify-all
  5. Wait for it to finish and reboot

If it doesn't POST, you can do the same, but with a hardware programmer.

If you made a mistake with your Coreboot config, but can still boot, and just want to flash a new build of Coreboot, no need to restore stock BIOS and do 1vyrain again, just flash your coreboot.rom like so: sudo flashrom -p internal -i bios --ifd -w path/to/coreboot.rom --noverify-all

That's all that is relevant if you don't have a hardware programmer like the CH341a.

Now the mistake that made me write this post: I had extracted the bottom 8MB chip from one of my X230 and applied me_cleaner to it. Seeing it had worked so well, I jumped to the conclusion that a backup for one X230 would work for another X230. So I flashed my second X230 with the cleaned 8MB image without making a backup. Coreboot worked fine, but then I realized I forgot to apply the keyboard EC patch.

Turns out, the contents of the bottom chip are machine-specific and the stock BIOS will not boot if it has been tampered with or swapped with a backup from another machine. And without the stock BIOS, the EC cannot be flashed.

If I do find a way to make the stock BIOS boot again, I will post an update here.

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Device: Thinkpad X1 Yoga Gen 8

i noticed that my thinkpad runs at a noticably lower but largely stable framerate aber waking up from sleep (after opening the lid and logging in).

Playing some audio also reveald crackeling noises about twice a second, which werent there before.

cpu usage remains low at 3%

actual cpu performance seems to be as good as before sleep.

ive had some issues with sleep on my desktop before (same config) but they were never so severe...

does someone here have similar issues or found a solution for this yet?

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Device: Thinkpad X1 Yoga Gen 8

i noticed that my thinkpad runs at a noticably lower but largely stable framerate aber waking up from sleep (after opening the lid and logging in).

Playing some audio also reveald crackeling noises about twice a second, which werent there before.

cpu usage remains low at 3%

actual cpu performance seems to be as good as before sleep.

ive had some issues with sleep on my desktop before (same config) but they were never so severe...

does someone here have similar issues or found a solution for this yet?

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soooo - i got a... thinkpad x1 ... yoga gen 8 - and its great!

works flawlessly, i love the trackpoint - great navigation.

however! i have found that this middle trackpad button isnt really a middle mouse button at all! its great for scrolling with the trackpoint and it works great for a middle-mouse-button click when just clicked once, but when held, the laptop seems to expect a scroll from the trackpoint.

i need the middle-mouse-button-dragging for navigation within the godot game engine and blender.

sooo - i tried finding a way to emulate middle click using both left - and right trackpad buttons, but to no avail.

the closest i have gotten is by cloning and running this repo here, which made it so that, when left and right buttons are pressed, they emulate the physical middle trackpad button pres... which lets me scroll using the trackpoint, but doesnt actually emulate the real middle mouse button press (so still no middle-mouse-buton drag ;( )

(yes, i tried the gsettings command they provide in the - that didnt work either, seemingly nothing changed)

does someone have a solution for this?

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Hi, I have tried undervolting my t480 before, but ran into several issues, I wonder if that was because I was just not doing it correctly? never found a proper guide or tips for it really, anyone have any idea how to properly do it? reading other people's stuff, seems it is indeed worth it to try at least.

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For those interested in some numbers on how much a quad-core mod might affect your power usage and battery life. This post only covers power consumption of the CPU as measured by RAPL to eliminate other factors such as LCD panel type, attached USB devices, or number of SSDs installed.

Averages for dual-core i5-3210M, 35W TDP:

  • Idle: 2.87 W
  • Moderate load: 13.79 W

Averages for quad-core i7-3612QE, 35W TDP:

  • Idle: 3.84 W
  • Moderate load: 13.03 W

Since I have been unable to source a ULV-modded board, I am looking for justification to do the mod myself. As part of this, I tested a S230U with the dual-core i5-3317U, 17W TDP:

  • Idle: 2.49 W
  • Moderate load: 9.51 W

Will come back with more numbers if I succeed in putting the ULV chip in an X230. Don't hold your breath since it's a complicated operation with many potential issues. You are also welcome to DM me if you want to sell a ULV-equipped board.

Experiment setup:

  • Command: sudo powerstat -R 10 10
  • Idle: Debian 13 TTY, X session logged out
  • Moderate load: Xfce desktop, Librewolf with uBlock Origin, playing a 720p Youtube video
  • I am not sure how much this affects the numbers, but the S230U is on the stock BIOS while the two X230's are on Coreboot with me_cleaner.
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Hi everyone,

I’ve had my E580 since 2018 and it’s been flawless, a true workhorse. I’m planning to pass it to my son and upgrade to a more powerful laptop, ideally staying in the ThinkPad E series for cost reasons. However, I’m overwhelmed by the available configurations. My target is 32 GB RAM and a good 16" panel (preferably 100% sRGB), though since I’ll use the laptop almost exclusively at home with an external monitor and keyboard, a 14" could also work. I run Linux but often use a Windows VM. My questions are:

  • AMD or Intel and which specific model should I consider? Is a “Ryzen 7 250” a reasonable choice?
  • AMD-based models sometimes don’t list the Wi‑Fi chipset. Any idea on whether those will work reliably under Linux?

Any general tips or things to avoid would also be appreciated.

For instance, what about this: https://imgur.com/a/43LpduT? Or this? https://imgur.com/a/y9IW4mK (image in Spanish, but the name of the components are in english)

The intel one is almost 50% more in price.

Thanks a lot in advance!

E.N.

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1000008687

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According to https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/solutions/ht510809-how-to-reinstall-the-operating-system-linux, the only Lenovo "addition" to a Fedora installation is the /opt/lenovo directory. Could anyone list the contents of this folder? Does it only contain the xcclogger application? Thanks!

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T580 RAM Upgrade (lemmy.dbzer0.com)
submitted 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) by SpiceDealer@lemmy.dbzer0.com to c/thinkpad@lemmy.ml
 
 

I recently bought a T580 and it's a great laptop but it could use some upgrades. I'm trying to upgrade to 32gb RAM which might be overkill but I plan on using this for a long time. What's the best place to buy aftermarket RAM? I was looking at these from Crucial but there end-of-life. Should that be a concern? Thanks in advance.

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geteilt von: https://lemmy.ml/post/36647831

Piateho augusta som napísal článok o mojom ThinkPade, kde po jeho napísaní mi napadlo, že by som mohol urobiť dlhodobú recenziu o tomto stroji.

Use the translator in the sidebar to translate the page.

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For casual web browsing, coding, and document preparation, I'm getting just shy of 4 hours on a 6-cell and a little more than 6 hours on a 9-cell. Granted that's with a quad core mod, IPS display, and full Coreboot, so the typical power consumption with a browser window open might be anywhere from 13 to 16 watts.

How's your battery life? Any optimizations I might be missing out on?

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Follow-up to my earlier write-up on Corebooting my i7-3612QE X230: https://lemmy.ml/post/23117122


Since I initially flashed the top 4MB BIOS chip with Coreboot via 1vyrain, the bottom 8MB remained intact with the Intel ME. Its contents are independent, so no need to worry about updating the 4MB BIOS for this procedure if it's already Corebooted.

I used an unmodified black CH341A with the included generic black clip. Pins 1-4 are on the side with the lever, align red wire of the clip with the indent or dot (pin 1) of the bottom 8MB chip.

While I purchased the CH341A with a 1.8 V converter, the chip was not detected with the converter in place, so I resolved to take a risk and do without it. Although the CH341A output reads 5 V on a multimeter, that's supposed to be the open-circuit voltage, which falls to around 3.3 V with any load, which the X230 chips should tolerate very well for the brief flashing operation. Please keep in mind that there's still a risk, especially if you are an owner of such a quad-core board.

Put the chip in the test clip and then plug in the CH341A into a system with flashrom and the iomem=relaxed kernel parameter. Save the contents of the chip:

flashrom -p ch341a_spi -r bottom.bin

It may detect multiple compatible chips. I couldn't really read the engraving on the chip itself, so I picked a random one. The particular choice shouldn't matter now, but might later. In this case,

flashrom -p ch341a_spi -r bottom.bin -c <YOUR CHIP>

Then verify that the dump matches the chip contents:

flashrom -p ch341a_spi -v bottom.bin -c <YOUR CHIP>

If anything fails, unplug the CH341A, redo the test clip, and plug in again.

Grab a copy of me_cleaner and run bottom.bin through it. It'll know what to do with the raw dump, no need to prep or otherwise bless the file:

python me_cleaner.py -S -O bottom_clean.bin bottom.bin

-S: In addition to stripping down the Intel ME, also set the AltMEDisable/HAP bit just in case

-O bottom_clean.bin: output result to bottom_clean.bin

Now to flash it the clean file back to the chip:

flashrom -p ch341a_spi -w bottom_clean.bin -c <YOUR CHIP>

This is where the specific selection of compatible chip does matter. On my first run, it failed to erase before writing the chip. Fortunately, it's mostly a matter of trial-and-error if you really can't read the chip markings and the other compatible model worked for me.

I can confirm that everything works as expected after the procedure, even the dreaded suspend-then-hibernate and resume. No noticeable changes in boot time, performance, or battery life.

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There's a listing on eBay for a T580. Everythings seems fine just that the seller states that the external battery is not included but the internal battery is still intact. Even if I buy a battery separately, is this a good idea?

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This is from a sampling of aftermarket batteries for the "old body style" ThinkPads (T510, X230, etc.). This may or may not apply to newer ThinkPads using flat Li-Polymer cells.

In general, the performance of an aftermarket battery correlates with its cost. The cheapest aftermarket cells provide half the battery life of more expensive ones and degrade sooner.

Brand-agnostic observations

  • Some batteries don't play well with charge thresholds. If not allowed to reach 100%, they lose track of the actual charge over the course of a few cycles. This usually manifests as suddenly dropping to nearly empty from 30% to 50%.
  • If it advertises support for the **30 series, the battery will probably pass the boot-up verification on those models.
  • Aftermarket labels make liberal use of Arial instead of Helvetica. Maybe I have an eye for typefaces, but this should be a dead giveaway that tends to slip under the radar.
  • Good aftermarket batteries tend to be considerably heavier than low-quality ones.
  • Low-quality aftermarket batteries tend to fit poorly in the slot.
  • Boxes for aftermarket batteries, compared to originals, are missing the large sticker on the box with Lenovo part numbers, barcodes, and regulatory markings.

Kingsener

  • Reasonable cost
  • Genuine capacity, matches that of the original
  • Heavy in the hand, slightly looser fit than original
  • May sporadically register 0% on a Corebooted X230, but immediately returns to normal without shutting down
  • Gradually loses track of charge with thresholds

Dr. Battery

  • Most expensive
  • Genuine capacity, matches that of the original
  • Heavy in the hand and fits well
  • Gradually loses track of charge with thresholds

DTK

  • Relatively lower cost
  • Genuine capacity, but less than that of the original
  • Feels lighter than the original, but fits well
  • Rubber feet fell off after less than a month
  • Did not test charge thresholds for this brand

"Lenovo" with fake recycle symbol

  • Reasonable cost
  • The RECYCLE symbol uses a wider font and there is a typo in the text: "Use of enother battery may present a fire or explosion"
  • However, capacity is genuine and matches that of the original
  • Heavy in the hand and fits well
  • Comes in a plain, unmarked cardboard box
  • Works well with charge thresholds
  • Rubber feet fell off after less than a month
  • Can vary by actual manufacturer

Unbranded

  • About half the price for half the battery life and a third the lifespan compared to a higher-quality battery
  • Advertised 57 Wh, actual 48 Wh, compare to 63 Wh of genuine Lenovo
  • Lighter and worse fit than original
  • Rubber feet fell off within two weeks
  • Loses track of charge within a few cycles if thresholds used
  • Works fine for a few months, but capacity thereafter decreases noticeably beyond about 150 cycles
  • May use scavenged cells: serial numbers on the cells inside are far apart, which would be uncharacteristic of a factory receiving and using fresh cells from a reputable manufacturer
  • Can sporadically cause laptop to get stuck in suspend, requiring a hard restart
  • Can vary by manufacturer

My use cases for these bottom-of-the-barrel batteries is getting beater ThinkPads up and running with some degree of mobility and getting rid of the void otherwise left if the battery is absent. Also fine for BIOS updates that demand a charged battery.

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If for whatever reason you don't want to buy a new nub and you feel that the nub is kinda loose (eg. you need to put too much pressure to move the pointer or you need to crank up to eleven the software sensitivity), one quick fix is to pad the hole of the nub with anything that makes the hole tighter and able to better grip the stick.

In the picture, I'm using a paper adhesive tape (which is easily removable) with the glue part towards the hole. Also, for obvious reasons, I highly recommend NEVER using anything permanent like glue or green stuff (use green stuff to manufacture your own diy nub if you feel courageous enough to do that)

I needed only two layer, but you will need to tweak around how many layers fits your use.

Now the hole is tighter and I can use the nub with 2.5 software sensitivity (on linux).

 

To insert the adhesive tape, cut a somewhat big square (area a bit larger than the nub) and, using the point of a mechanical pencil/needle or anything similar, gently push the tape inside the nub's hole and fix it to the "walls".

then put the nub back on the stick and see how it works.

after doing this "arts project", cut the excess of tape that can be seen once the nub is back to the trackpoint.

 

Thats it.

a good "gambiarra" that I'm using and will be probably my permanent solution (I'm not recommending to be your's permanent solution, but it will be mine's)

(PS: Gambiarra is a word that means what is supposed to be quick temporary fix that ends up being used for longer than that)

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Can I cannibalise the screen from one and put it into the other?

Searching tinternet shows they're both 12.1 inch screens, but I don't know if that means they identical.

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This is my daily driver at the moment - X201s modded with a 51nb motherboard with i7-10710u (a.k.a X2100). A lot of geo nerd cred to whomever can guess the location by the mountains :)

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geteilt von: https://lemmy.ml/post/34208852 This is basically a review of the laptop whose picture I posted yesterday.

Každý, koho poznám, má nejaký laptop. Či sú to tie Chromebooky, ktorých operačný systém sa má v blízkej budúcnosti spojiť s Androidom, MacBooky, ktoré stratili to ich slávne svietiace jablko (pozri tento článok), alebo notebooky od Lenova, medzi ktoré od roku 2005 patria aj ThinkPady. Mne sa podarilo jeden zohnať za celkom dobrú cenu na Alze (áno, spadol som do kultu ThinkPadov, ale o tom si povieme až na záver), takže si ho poďme teraz zrecenzovať.

Use the translator in the sidebar to translate the page

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submitted 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) by DieserTypMatthias@lemmy.ml to c/thinkpad@lemmy.ml
 
 

It's a ThinkPad P14s Gen 5 (AMD version)

Specs:

  • Ryzen PRO 7 8840HS
  • AMD Radeon 780M
  • 32 gigabytes of RAM
  • 1TB NVMe SSD

Link to article about it

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There were three suppliers of keyboards for the xx10-xx20 series of ThinkPads: NMB/LiteOn, Chicony, and ALPS. A list of FRUs by language and supplier can be found at: https://web.archive.org/web/20200807103606/https://pcsupport.lenovo.com/us/en/solutions/pd010629

Having used NMB, Chicony, and counterfeit keyboard, I'd like to share some of my thoughts for posterity, especially as it seemed that the subtle differences between NMB and Chicony were scarcely documented aside from the notion that "NMB is better". It fascinates me that there is a cottage industry for counterfeits of such a niche product as a laptop keyboard, and these counterfeits are also poorly documented.

ALPS: FRU NOs 45N20xx

Getting this out of the way first: I don't have any personal experience, but ALPS seems to have unanimously produced the least desirable, mushiest variant.

Chicony: FRU NOs 45N21xx

While not as sought-after as the NMB variant, it is still leagues ahead of any consumer-grade laptop keyboard. Tactile response is consistent between keys. I'm not sure how else to explain it, but it will satisfy you unless you decide to someday try the NMB variant. My only criticisms are the thin, high-pitched rattle noticeable when releasing the larger keys and the relatively mushy mouse buttons.

NMB/LiteOn: FRU NOs 45N22xx

This is the most sought-after model and is likely the subject when someone reminisces about the classic keyboard "feeling" better. Most of its advantages come down to tighter tolerances. The slack between keycaps and scissor mechanisms is minimal, virtually eliminating the rattling sound. Tactile response is consistently crisp, never mushy, and won't leave you guessing whether you made a key press. The gap between keycaps is also narrower. That said, the TrackPoint feels the same between Chicony and NMB. If photos are clear enough, the NMB variant can be identified as the circle around the Windows logo is merely smooth, but not indented.

Counterfeits

Counterfeit keyboards can have any combination of both real parts and the following, or only fake parts:

  • Reprinting / resurfacing: This is the smallest offense as the underlying components could be genuine in this case. Signs include uniformly smooth keycaps, indentations of printed-over letters showing through, or an unusual layout for the language.

  • Incorrect typeface: The correct font for ThinkPad keyboards is Helvetica, but counterfeits may use Arial. The difference is most evident on the the capital letter 'R', where the "leg" curves outward in Helvetica while it is a straight diagonal to the corner in knockoffs with Arial. The font for "ThinkVantage" should match the font of the ThinkPad logo. If not, the keyboard is certainly fake.

  • Volume / Power button LEDs: Fakes sometimes use pure red LEDs under the mute buttons rather than orange LEDs. The clear window may be off-center. The genuine power button has a clear ring on the perimeter, but fakes may have a clear window near the center instead.

  • Fake TrackPoint: may have poor sensitivity or be sunken in too far.

  • Counterfeit keyswitch mechanism: poor or inconsistent tactile response or unreasonably loose keycaps.

  • Metal backplate with large holes cut out, is very pliable, lacks paint around the edges, or lacks cutouts for drainage channels along the front edge.

  • Caps Lock and Enter keys with a different texture from the rest of the keys

Out of sheer curiosity, I bought myself a clearly counterfeit keyboard to try out. While the listing pictured a keyboard with the wrong typeface, I was sent one with the correct typeface on the keycaps. However, the differences are still immediately apparent:

  • Instead of the detailed FRU and barcode label, the back features only a quality control sticker and a label suggesting a 2025 manufacture date.

  • The backplate has much larger holes under the keys and there are no cutouts where the drainge channels should have met the keyboard edge. The edges have no black paint and the shiny metal outline is visible after installing.

  • The tabs at the front edge have poor tolerances and in order to slide the keyboard all the way in, I had grasp the edge (fingernails hooked into the lip, bearing against keys on the bottom row) and give it an extra tug.

  • A healthy ThinkPad classic keyboard should be slightly concave to the user, but the backplate for this was completely flat so the middle bowed outward when installed. But with such pliable metal, I was able to just bend it into shape.

  • The flex cable feels flimsy and I am afraid the connector will punch through the pull tab if I were to try removing the keyboard.

  • The TrackPoint is recessed below keycap height. The cap is also nonstandard, combining full height with the narrow hole of a low-profile cap. It is stiff and awkward to use, barely remedied by setting the cursor sensitivity to max. I still can't tell if it's due to the mechanics of a recessed TrackPoint, or if the underlying component is just as bad.

  • The volume rocker is uneven and only actuates with some force.

  • Right and left mouse buttons feel different. The left button does not actuate when pressed next to the middle mouse button and feels as though it jams against something.

I'm also writing up this entire post on the counterfeit keyboard. The tactile response is not exactly mushy, but it is weak and slightly inconsistent, leading to an occasional missed keystroke. Overall, the keyboard feels on par with those in cheap keyboard folios for tablets - arguably better in the sense of key travel and tactile response, but it is evident what lengths they went to save costs. I could live with the keyboard, but the awful TrackPoint is a deal-breaker. That said, for $20, 12 of which probably went to warehousing, 3-day shipping, and packaging, I won't complain.

Are they factory seconds or new parts made on old molds?

I highly doubt it. At the very least, the metal backplate is fundamentally different.

I'm not sure what the thought process behind counterfeit classic keyboards is, but if it were up to me, I'd diversify my portfolio by making 7-row keyboards of a slightly higher grade for later models like the T480 as well, perhaps even one for the Framework laptop.

Strategies for obtaining a NMB keyboard

  • Playing the lottery: Buying a used or for-parts ThinkPad on the cheap will almost always yield a genuine keyboard, but photos on listings will rarely give enough detail to determine which variant is installed. Avoid playing the lottery with listings for just the keyboard that say "compatible". Compatible can mean anything from the NMB variant (unlikely) to a counterfeit.

  • If the listing shows a missing keycap and there is a red dome under where the keycap should be, it is a NMB keyboard. You may then choose to source a replacement keycap.

  • Search for overlooked models compatible with the classic keyboard, like the T400s or W510.

  • Search for keyboards in other languages with a similar enough overall layout. Also a good way to avoid counterfeits.

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Just noticed that the lower right corner of my X230 just barely hovers above the table. It gives ever so slightly when I press on that corner and I can hear the rubber pad squish against the table.

Also, the table isn't crooked; my other laptops sit perfectly flat. Has anyone else had or solved this issue on their X230 or other Thinkpad?

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