this post was submitted on 19 Jul 2023
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The problem in Portland is that we decriminalized most drugs, so now potential third spaces are over-run with homeless tents and drug use.
From my house I have either a 1/4 mile uphill walk to a major busline, or a 3/4 mile downhill walk to one. Either way isn't particularly safe, and the bus lines themselves aren't particularly safe.
https://www.koin.com/news/passenger-violence-increasing-at-trimet-during-severe-staffing-shortage/
Crazy idea: if drugs are decriminalized, what if we had two versions of public spaces: one that disallows use of drugs, and one where drugs were allowed and handed out for free? Like if you were a drug addict, would you really want to go to that boring "sober" library where you might get hassled when you could get unlimited drugs at the library across the street?
Because people who are out of their minds on drugs typically aren't aware of any sorts of public restrictions. That's currently the problem in Portland:
https://apnews.com/article/portland-ada-lawsuit-homeless-tents-sidewalks-aee2d079440d5f9427a18d9e4771d92a
We can't get them to comply with relatively basic requests like "don't block sidewalks". You honestly think they'll stick to "keep your drugs in the beer garden"?
Why would they take the drugs and leave elsewhere, which takes time, when they could consume them right there on the comfy beer garden lounge chairs?
Unfortunately, meth use is not conducive to staying in one place. Frequent Portland problem:
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/11/the-new-meth/620174/
Oh wow! Ok then, free heroin at the Beer-and-Heroin Garden, free meth at the center of the Great Nature (and Meth) Preserve - swim up a waterfall, wrestle a bear, whatever. Free (one-way) weed shuttle bus provided.
Why would I want my tax money going to buy drugs for junkies?
Drugs are fucking cheap if you control the means of production. For less than $10 a day you can keep homeless drug addicts off your buses, out of your train stations, out of your libraries and playgrounds and out of tent cities in middle of town, simply by luring them to a no-strings-attached watering hole out of your line of sight.
$10/day adds up over time and area.
Cheaper than paying police and paying staff to clean up the buses and paying insurance and inconvenience for all the petty break-ins and smashed car windows.
It would be cheaper to just work all the criminals until they pay off their damages
Right, first pick a crime that is disproportionately enforced towards one minority, then make them do forced unpaid labor as a condition of their sentences.
The extra steps don't change what that sounds like.
So we shouldn't go after criminals because you think it looks bad?
We shouldn't be using slave labor just because you fantasize about it.
We can’t get them to comply with relatively basic requests like “don’t block sidewalks”, what makes you think you'd be able to force them to do useful work? Overseers with whips cost money, how do you expect to do it cheaply enough to turn a profit and pay off damages?
A guy on a car walk with an m16 can oversee a lot of people at once.
And does this guy shoot them if they sit down and refuse to work?
Do you support murdering people you don't like in all contexts, or just if you can't extract labor from them at gunpoint?
I think it's a sincere question. Your comments so far have suggested that you support the idea that execution is an acceptable punishment for people who abuse drugs and then disobey orders from authority. I believe it's fair to question whether there are lower levels of nuisance that you also believe the death penalty should apply to.
As for the argument as a whole, taking into consideration the cost of training and wages for the prison guards/riflemen/executioners necessary to employ this scheme and the logistical cost of moving these incarcerated laborers to potential work sites, as well as the low quality of the labor they could provide while going through withdrawals, I still think the $10 per day would be cheaper.
Ah, I apologize, it seems I misinterpreted the top comment. I reread the thread, and now I see the link to an article about increased violence. I was looking at the thread by the context of the top comment's text alone, so I was interpreting your comments as being about homeless people and drug addicts in general. I still don't like the idea of prison labor as a solution, but your opinion makes a lot more sense when taken as a response to violent crime. I wonder if the other commenter in this chain made the same mistake.
Apologies again for the misunderstanding.
I'm asking about your barbaric suggestion for punishment for people unfortunate enough to be targeted by selective drug enforcement. Your suggestion is forced labor at gunpoint.
I asked questions about just how barbaric you were willing to take this. I got my answer.
You're willing to enslave and murder people for being addicted.
Not profitably.
if all drugs get decriminalized, society will fall apart even more rapidly than it is now. better to exile all of the addicts to somewhere no one wants to go (wyoming) and fence them in - then let them inject/inhale to their hearts content.
Concentration camps, huh? When this doesn't solve the ills of society you claim it will, who's next on the "then they came for" list?
perhaps you should welcome the heroin zombies into your home, if you care for them so much?
Perhaps you shouldn't advocate for concentration camps.