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I am sick of old men.
(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 05 Jul 2024
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Pass electoral reform first IMO. Unless critical mass is achieved, we would be spoiling the election. This is why passing electoral reform is of utmost importance.
Democrats clearly understand the faults of First Past The Post voting. Go on any platform and suggest voting third party and the liberals will come in droves to explain the faults of the FPTP voting system.
Okay, you understand the voting system is flawed... then why do we still use FPTP voting? How can you explain these mathematical flaws to people considering voting third party and NOT do anything about the voting system? You don't get to have both.
I don’t buy that. Both major parties, all the donors, the media, the lobbying groups and all the party machines in all fifty states are heavily invested the system we have.
I’m not gonna wait till we tip the whole system over to record a vote that actually represents my political positions.
If the two major parties are afraid of third party spoilers then they can adopt the platforms of those third parties.
Ok, then just be aware that when the pile of votes for 3rd party isn't anywhere near either candidates pile your vote won't matter. Biden and Trump will get the majority of votes and you will lose your chance to impact one of the most important elections in US history because of naive idealisms.
And neither party is afraid of the 3rd party, they use it. They take reasonable minded people who would never vote Republican and push them to 3rd party to weaken the Democrats votes. It's exactly what they did with Bernie and how Trump won. They had massive turn out for the 3rd party that did absolutely nothing but split the Dems and allow the Republicans to be unified. A vote for 3rd party is a vote for Republicans, I know you don't want to believe that reality but it's true.
that's not true.
third party votes provide access to funding, ballot and event presence, media coverage and public awareness. third party votes do matter and they have a measurable positive impact.
third party votes tell the two major parties exactly what positions they need to integrate into their platforms in order to pick up those ballots in those particular districts. even if a person doesn't think it's worthwhile to build support for a third party, a third party ballot is an undeniable record of what the two major parties can do to get your support.
when people start talking about this kind of thing i generally like to bring up perot 92, which had a serious effect on domestic policy and was proven not to be a spoiler multiple times in the years that followed.
Ok, prove me wrong, when was the last 3rd party president?
Anyone can see that a majority of 3rd party votes come from Democrats because the right is radicalized. So by splitting that base you empower the Republicans. A split Democrat/3rd party base accomplishes nothing but clearing the way for this project 2025 bs.
I never claimed there was a third party president and I already proved your claims wrong in my last post.
But if you want a third party president, look into Lincoln’s second term running as the Union party candidate, a coalition formation that came from triangulating around a bunch of smaller third parties.
If the democrats are afraid of a split they can change their platform to get more votes.
Yes, there has never been a 3rd party president and their won't be for a long time.
But ya, let's teach the Dems a lesson by handing over the country to the radical right, boy that'll show em. How purposefully self destructive. You're so idealistic that your not playing out the reality of how that will go.
Lincoln literally ran for his second term under a third party, the Union party, which was a coalition formed of his own republicans and others like the nativists.
I’ve tried really hard to not be idealistic and only talk in material terms about the way things are.
The only thing I’d like to show the democrats is what they need to do to get my vote. I plan on doing that by voting third party. My vote will also support in a measurable, material, real way a party and candidate that has nearly the same politics as I do. I’m not petulant or using my vote to express anger at the democrats.
How will it go when the democrats lose?
Ok, let's talk material. Do you honestly think a 3rd party candidate can win this presidency?
If the Democrats lose look at project 2025 for you answers. They have already enforced book bans and repealed many rights. The plan to continue to do that. And not voting for the best chance to stop that is a vote for it.
Exit polling from 92 showed that if everyone who wanted to vote for Perot but didn’t had actually voted for Perot he would have won both the electoral college and the popular vote.
I do think a third party can win this election for president.
But why not assume I said that I don’t think a third party can win and respond to that? It would probably be more interesting for both of us.
So leaving aside your war on terror ass parting shot there at the end, if the democrats are really worried about project 2025 and they know that the last time trump was declared the loser there were people ready to do January 6, why do you think pushing people to vote against it this time is the best response?
Why, if it is how you just said it is, would the democrats not be training, organizing and arming a group to actually oppose it?
It’s like if the American idol call in vote was to keep a puppy from getting smashed on live tv by a slowly advancing steamroller. The democrats are in power. There was just a Supreme Court ruling codifying the powers of the executive, who is a democrat. The democrats don’t need our vote to stop project 2025, they’re in the studio watching the steamroller advance on the puppy!
They can literally actually do something about it!
Ok, your evidence is a speculative vote that hinges on getting everyone to buy into that idea at once. It's not going to happen, without ranked choice voting a 3rd party president will never be.
Your whole stance is Dems are bad, 3rd party is better. But you live in a fantasy world where you're throwing your vote away to prove a point rather than actually have an impact on the outcome. Vote dem, then get ranked choice voting, then 3rd party has a chance. With Republicans you won't even keep mail in voting let alone expand it.
Even if you consider them both bad, you have the choice to choose the least bad guy to avoid losing more voter rights. Instead you're taking your view and using it to push an agenda that Republicans won't care about if they're in power. And by you not voting for the best chance to stop them you're giving them a better shot at it.
First things first: a third party vote isn’t throwing your vote away. Third party votes get tallied just like votes for republicans and democrats and even if the parties and candidates those votes are cast for don’t win, they confer real material gains like ballot presence, mandatory funding, event presence, media coverage and public awareness, like I said.
Second, I am not voting to prove a point. I am voting to make my voice heard. If one of the two major parties hears my voice and decides to adopt some of the positions of a party that I voted for then that’s great, maybe I’ll give them a chance next time.
It is not possible to vote against a candidate. You can only vote for a candidate. There is no second, different colored pen they hand you to fill in the bubble next to the candidate you don’t want to win.
I cant vote against trump, I can only vote for some candidate. My vote will never be interpreted as a vote against trump, it will only ever be interpreted as a vote in support of the candidate I cast it for.
If my vote doesn’t have an impact on the outcome then how can it help or harm either major party?