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Ameruleica ๐ฆ
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this post was submitted on 12 Jul 2024
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Yikes, so you oppose returning the land to Native groups for the sake of holding together a nation that is objectively more racist and genocidal than Nazi Germany. Yikes.
That's not what they're saying. They say that if you gave land back right now, you'd have massive violence against natives and likely other marginalized people by the fascists that have been building militias for years now. A revolution needs popular support, and I just don't see that at the moment.
Voting will also not change that. But neither will not voting, at least not for the better. Treat it like a chore, like you're taking out the trash. That won't clean your house, but if you don't, you're gonna live in filth before long.
Liberals think that voting is the end of politics, but that's where the actual work begins. Organize your workplace, your local community and with marginalized people. Build the support needed to tear this fucked up, cruel and callous system down. So when the collapse comes, fascism will not win. The people will.
The majority of people here are racist and will always be racist, so you're right that pandering to popular support is a dumbass idea
Are racist? Yeah probably. But I refuse to accept that they always will be. And there can't be a leftist revolution without popular support. The only reasonable way I see going forward is to build leftist support structures now, and organize, organize, organize. I think at least the young generation is coming around on capitalism, and we must make sure they get directed to the left, and not fascist demagogues
Good, and step one is to dissolve the state, right? So what if is your problem with my post? It's objectively impossible to espouse anarchism/leftism without working toward the collapse of fascist nations like the US.
In all seriousness, what do you think would happen if the state collapsed tomorrow?
We as the left are so disorganized, there would be nothing stopping fascists filling the power vacuum. I'm an anarchist myself, but for the revolution not to fall against the counterrevolution, we need to be ready to make sure that that power vacuum stays empty. That requires strong unions, self defense forces, mutual aid networks and much more. None of which we currently have. We absolutely work towards the collapse of the state. But on our terms, and with something better ready to replace it with. The revolution won't happen on it's own, it's a long and arduous process.
I'd hope then that you along with me would find solidarity while recognizing that the collapse of the US is beneficial for the greater good.
I ask again, what do you think will happen when then US state collapses?
The way you're taking about collapse reminds me of Christians taking about the rapture, this magical event that will take us to utopia.
I don't think it would take us to utopia
"Utopia" isn't even an anarchist concept
I simply think death to America is a net positive for people overall
What do you think will happen?
The USA would cease to exist (good)
If you pressed a magical button and the US turned into an ocean connecting the Atlantic and Pacific, sure, good. But I'm assuming that's not what you're talking about, and the people will not disappear, so I ask yet again, what will happen in the area now known as the US should the state collapse right now
The downfall of a genocidal state with a history of atrocities (good)
What would replace it?
"What would replace it?" -a 15th century peasant discussing the hypothetical downfall of feudalism
What do you think will replace it? You have only said negatives so far, what is coming after?
Why are you putting so much energy into defending a genocidal regime that does no good?
Because you're not offering a way to dismantle it.
No, I'm not. This is just a post celebrating the idea of the USA collapsing ๐ฆ๐ฆ๐ฆ
And what will happen then?
A genocidal state will be no more
And what will be in it's place?
I'll answer if you agree to accept my answer without trying to rope me into an argument I'm not looking to have
Alright, I agree. I'm about done with this back and forth as well, so I'll just listen what you think and then we can let the matter rest