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this post was submitted on 26 Aug 2024
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I know I wrote a lot and I wouldn't expect you to read it all, but I addressed this as well, using the US-Mexico war as an example.
We haven't given back Texas and California yet. If you invade a country and they take your territory, you can ask for a do-over, but it's probably not going to happen.
As I've noted, WE created this whole mess. And we shouldn't expect others to comply to standards we would never accept ourselves.
If you want to take it a step further, I posited a hypothetical situation where Mexico invaded and killed 20,000 Americans and took another 4000 hostage.
And what our response would likely be. If you aren't lying to yourself, you know exactly what we would do, especially if we have someone like Donald Trump at the helm when it happens.
The Zionist Settler colonists were the in invaders, what are you talking about. Are you trying to paint all Arab/Muslims in the region as the same? Or do you recognize that the surrounding countries invaded the newly founded Israel after months of Israel ethnicly cleansing hundreds of Palestinian towns and also for their own interests? Transjordan colluded with Ben-Gurion to acquire the West Bank. Egypt also had their own ambitions. In 1967 Israel started the war in order to gain control of the West Bank and Gaza Strip to gain control over all of historic Palestine. It's been a permanent occupation so the ethnostate that is Israel can continue settlements while rejecting the humanity and citizenship of Palestinians to solve it's 'demografic problem.'
I can't tell if you just aren't bothering to read what I wrote or if you are just looking for the closest tangentially related thing to copy-paste.
I just said expecting them to return land when we're keeping Texas and California is a case of "Do as I say, not as I do."
Yes, Israel removed Palestinian settlements. At our behest. We told them that land was now theirs. And the countries surrounding Israel telegraphed invasion plans for days before the six day war.
Revisionism aside, are you still trying to lay this at the feet of the Israelis instead of ours? We did that. It's cowardly to try to pretend otherwise.
Israel has been the one doing the settler Colonialism and ethnic cleansing, the fact that the US and other western countries have financially and militarily supported it for decades does not mean that Israel is not the one responsible for it.
Yes, the US was founded on genocide of the natives and continues to disparage them to this day with reservations. Obviously I don't support that, they deserve reparations and yes that includes land and financial compensation.
The Israeli plan to occupy the West Bank and Gaza Strip were planned for years. That's not revisionism, 1967 war: Haaretz, Forward . Forcible 'Transfer' (ethnic cleansing) is fundamental to Zionism since the 1880's long before the US had a major role in the region since the 1960s.
The whole point of the Uncommitted and other anti-genocide movements is to end US military support for the genocide. That's what is needed to start pressuring Israel to end being an Apartheid State.
You say that and yet, we have protests about Israel/Palestine and not a peep about reparations for Native Americans. We killed 99.9% of their population. It's easy to pay lip service after the fact, it's done.
Guess it's easier to pretend you care when you don't have settlements being raided and entire families being scalped. And you killed so many of them that there aren't enough of them left to complain about their treatment. We know what we did do when that was the reality though.
I ask again, what would we do if a tribe went rogue and started doing that now?
Do you think we've grown over the past 200 years? Think we'd react differently today?
Be honest.
The fact that our genocide of the natives happened hundreds of years ago is our of my control. Meanwhile, we are currently funding an ongoing genocide.
These aren't mutually exclusive either, you're deflecting from our support for an ongoing genocide with this kind of rhetoric.
Do you think we'd react differently today? That's a super straight forward question.
If anyone anywhere, regardless of the horrific shit we visited upon them attacked a US territory and killed 20,000 people and took another 4,000 hostage, and we had a Donald Trump in office at the time, what would we do?
This isn't one of those, "Rules for thee, but not for me" kind of situations, is it? Because I'm not doing this to deflect things from Israel, I'm saying WE did it, so at bare minimum we have an obligation to protect the lives of the 20 million people we placed in a death-trap of our making.
About your made up scenario where Natives result to armed resistance in response to an ongoing genocide and decades of violent occupation? I don't care, I would still support their emancipation. Yes, if people knew the full extent of what how we were treating them as subhumans, people would react differently.
9/11 was just my imagination I guess.
Wait... no it wasn't. We killed some 940,000 directly and our wars resulted in a cumulative loss of some 4.5 million people.
What... Americans didn't know we were mucking about in the middle east for decades?
You think we wouldn't do that now, if we lost ten times as many people?
....With Donald Trump as president?
I didn't ask you if you were a conscientious objector. Unless your name is Donald Trump that means diddly squat. I asked what America would do in that situation if you weren't lying to yourself.
And when that day comes to pass, do we deserve the death sentence you want to inflict on Israelis? Cause... we already showed what we'd do in those circumstances.
Dude, you're all over the place. Yeah, I know Manufacturing Consent is a thing. I have literally never advocated for Donald Trump. I advocate for Democratic voters to demand more from their representatives, because that's fundamental to a democracy
Don't change the subject, man.
What would we do? You know the answer.
Netanyahu is Israel's Donald Trump. Hamas knew exactly what would happen and did it anyway. Just like you know exactly what would happen if the above scenario happened in America.
You just don't want to say it. Because that would make you a hypocrite. Because accepting your first position, that we need to leave Israel high and dry, applying the same moral standards to us, you might as well be saying, "Death to America."
If you don't wanna go that far, guess what. You've got double standards. And that is a moral conundrum only WE have. Most other countries that have a terrorist attack don't invade sovereign nations and murder millions of people.
When France had their huge terrorist attack, their PM went on stage and said, "This will not change us." They still accept more Muslim refugees than we ever will.
If anyone doesn't get to talk shit, it's us. Especially, ESPECIALLY regarding anything in the middle east, because we engineered the whole thing for our benefit. Abandoning 20 million Jews we propped up specifically to draw aggro for us is cowardly. Denying the reality of what we did because you want to pretend you're really a 'good' person is laughable.
You live in a house with potable water that comes out of the tap. You have any idea how insane that sounds to most of the world? Just wasting drinking water like that?
All the things you take for granted was built on the blood of others. You live in America, get off your high horse. The name of the game is harm mitigation. You want to cosplay a goody-two-shoes? That's nice. Tell it to the 4.5 million people that died because we couldn't be bothered to make sure Florida got another thousand Gore votes. If you're an American, you're ruining things for everyone else, just by existing.
The US has 1/20th of the global population and produces 1/4 of global emissions and waste. 5x the global average. Know those billions that are going to die in places like Africa as global warming accelerates in the coming decades?
That's us.
So, if you wanna know why I think your phariasaic platitudes are gag inducingly vile, it's because your vapid single-issue hot take is ACTUALLY harmful to humanity as a whole. Republicans should never be in power. And no, you wanting to play brinkmanship with democracy itself at stake isn't funny to anyone actually paying attention.
Your lifestyle is only possible because of the absolutely heinous shit we visited upon others. You want them to pack up and leave? First find them a place to go.
Better yet, campaign to bring the 2 million Palestinians HERE. You think people living in Gaza right now wouldn't immediately accept an offer to come live in America?
Sure, we'd have all the problems that we were so eager to inflict on the Israelis. We'll get bombed, people will die, and we'll probably finally get our share of the terrorist attacks Israel and Europe have been dealing with for decades. But unlike them, we'd actually deserve it. And they'd acclimate to secular society a lot faster here than they ever would living there.
Let Israel have the whole thing, and lets see if that changes a damn thing. It won't, but at least you will actually learn WHY Jordan and Egypt refuse to accept Palestinian refugees. (Hint: It's called assassinations and coup attempts)