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this post was submitted on 26 Jul 2023
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No Stupid Questions
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The format actually has a lot of benefits - it supports transparency, animation, and compresses very efficiently. So it could theoretically replace GIF, JPG, and PNG in one fell swoop.
The downsides are that many apps don't currently support it and that it's owned by Google.
Personally I use webp for images that are not intended to share (e.g. banners and images on my blog), but stick to JPG/PNG for sending to other people.
I mean yes, but it's ~~patent~~ irrevocably royalty free (so long as you don't sue people claiming WebM/P as your own/partially your own work), so it's effectively owned by the public.
Source: https://www.webmproject.org/license/bitstream/
(But Dark, that's WebM not WebP! -- they share the same license: https://groups.google.com/a/webmproject.org/g/webp-discuss/c/W4_j7Tlofv8)
Thank you for this. I was kind of on the fence because of its ties to google but this helps a ton.
You could still be on the fence. It's Google so for sure it has the possibility of tracking or some other user exploiting bullshit feature but we haven't figure it out yet.
It's open source. https://www.webmproject.org/code/#webp-repositories
It's also just an open file format. Anyone could implement it, and in fact I found dozens of completely independent implementations of webp decoders on GitHub in various languages.
There really is no secret ulterior motive in this case.
Sort of. Smaller images mean it’s less work for Google to crawl and index them, if every image is 40% smaller then that’s potentially saving them millions a year in storage and bandwidth costs.
So, yea, it’s better for the web but it also massively benefits them.
Well, they crawl and index anyways. I see no harm done with .webp. One of my friends said with .webp you can't save an image because it stops you from doing that somehow? I'm unsure, maybe true maybe not.
well, see confusion by OP. otherwise really not true.
Open source just like Chromium or Android, right? They're open source also, right?
Open source just like Chromium or Android, right? They're open source also, right? 😈
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.
Chromium and Android really are open-source. There are hundreds of products like Electron and Fire OS built on top of them without any involvement or consent from Google.
Just because Google Chrome and Pixel phones have some proprietary code doesn't mean that Android and Chromium aren't open.
Well your right I wasn't clear in my answer. They are open source but for the point of this discussion with open source software backed by an corporation the open source it's just a mean of spreading "soft power" maybe gather inovation from the market and for sure to offer a way for FOSS creators to use their energies to build in the "correct" direction. The purpose it's building a monopoly on certain aspects of the market.
Chromium is open source and a lot of small projects have sprouted from it but with the same undelying technology. Except for Firefox, Edge and Safary, everyone stems from the same roots controlled by google trough money and market share. So in this case Chrome dominates the market and decides the course of the industry. See mv3.
Android is open source and some projects are build on top of it but the big market share so the direction of the technology is controlled by Google.
Let them decide a stadard for pictures which has undeniable advantages and I bet you that tomorow they will decide how you share and visualise images and videos.
It's not about being open source it's about that project being a tool used by a company to spread their interests (which usually end up being predatory towards the common user).
Dammit. Why do you have to make a lot of sense. 😂
And here comes jpegXL claiming the same things. Fun times.
Okay, but jpeg xl is looking pretty good. Especially the ability to losslessly convert jpg to jxl.
Recent conversation on lemmy.world and an article about it.
https://xkcd.com/927/
JPEG XL came after WebP. It's more of a successor and less of a competitor.
That said, in the world of standards, a successor is still a competitor.
Jpegxl will die because it has a bad name, that's it
We usually call it JXL for short.
I'll take it, hopefully jxl becomes the primary way it's referred to 😁
Lol sooo cool, just like my XL boxer briefs and my XL diet coke. Also wtf jpegxl is great at making things smaller
Confusingly, XL doesn't stand for "eXtra Large". JPEG has had multiple standards over the years, many of which start with X. In this context, the L in XL means Long-term. As in, they expect this format to last a long time like the original JPEG we all know and "love" has.
Source
That's makes sense, I can't shake the extra large connotations on XL :P
Yeah I wouldn't have an issue with them if they weren't so incompatible with most of the programs and sites I like to use. It makes them super inconvenient to work with. I know some apps are catching up and supporting them, but it feels like the adaptation is slow and patchy which makes it difficult to know which programs will support webp at some point and when.
Potientially dumb question here, but how does Google own a file format? They own the patent?
I think so, but I'm no expert on the details of legal ownership.
@Dark_Arc@lemmy.world added a good comment here that explains the royalty free licensing.
Thanks!
look up mp3 -- that didn't become public domain until pretty recently (I think 2017?)
not an uncommon thing really
Wait LAME encoders are now obsolete? Tf? How did I miss this?
So basically what APNG tried to be?
APNG is lossless.
True. Why did it remain relatively unknown while webp seems to have taken off?
libpng refused to accept it
mozilla made it because it suited their needs; and libpng (the organisation behind png, and who make the standard png decoder[^1]) refused to add compatibility, insisting on mng instead. mng was bad, so nobody used it; and apng was great, but require mozillas version of the decoder so systems couldn't use both the official version and the apng supporting version together
[^1]: and have a fantastic website
Ah, so it was people being prideful idiots because it didn't come from their own fiefdom.
partly, i don't think it was just that. mng did have considerable benefits over apng at the time; but it was a solution looking for a problem. i think they wanted it to succeed because they'd poured time into it, but nobody wanted to support it (mozilla, the only browser to support it to my knowledge, dropped support eventually because the mng decoder was bigger than every other image decoder in firefox put together)
To add to the reply you got, WebP is lossy. Meaning that WebP files are smaller. APNG only added animation and nothing else.
That's a great idea. But can't webp simply be converted into a png or mp4 file?
mp4 isn't generally for images.
Yes you can convert, it's just that many existing tools may not presently support webp. If you just want a quick & dirty meme you can always screen cap.
The fun thing is
heifis actually effectively single frame of h.265 video because the amount of work that's gone into making h.265 space efficient also happens to work really well for efficienct compression of individual frames of video aka images