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(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 22 Nov 2024
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I want to be more optimistic, but I'm looking for the ingredients we'd need to push back effectively on the creeping fascism any time in the near future, and they don't seem to be here.
Democrats need a massively leftward and populist shift to differentiate themselves from Republicans in the eyes of uninformed voters, and I think there's just too much pushing against it. All the biggest channels of information are controlled by billionaires. They are not going to present any progressive efforts in a positive light, and they've become really effective at setting people who have common interests against each other. That, or inundating us so much that people understandably become numb to it and tune out. Trump was about as blatantly awful as a candidate could ever be, and he still won.
I'm fearing all we have to look forward to is 10 steps back under Republicans then 1 step forward under Democrats before Republicans take control again. Democrat leadership seems to prefer losing to winning with a progressive agenda.
A foul-mouthed, shit-talking, no-bullshit pro union pro lgbtq pro healthcare ballbuster who's sick of pussyfooting, eggshell walking, and capitulating could do wonders.
Trump's irreverance, but paired with competence, a heart, and basic, decent, sensible views.
The DNC would never allow such a person to pass through their filters. In many ways, the Democrats themselves are as much an enemy of the people as the most extreme Republicans.
Tim Walz gives me hope, if he runs for president in 2028. He's too big of a name now for the DNC to keep him under wraps. He might not even want to, though.
Tim Walz was very conservative for a DNC lawmaker. He was put on the ticket to balance out Kamala Harris' Tax the Rich and Legalize Weed platform.
He was conservative as a congressman due to the demands of his deeply conservative district. As governor, he has been very progressive.
Even while running as VP he promised full undying support to Israel, almost explicitly saying they had the right to expand the war to Lebanon and Iran. Picking him was the Harris Campaign stepping on a goddamn landmine.
Source? I recall him remaining largely ambiguous on Israel, at least during the campaign. I don't know what he said before.
The Debates
He said none of those things, only the tired old "Israel has a right to defend itself." He also supported the Iran nuclear deal and has been generally supportive of the Democrat party dialing back support.
I'm sticking with ambiguous.
The question was if he would support a preemptive strike from Israel on Iran and he answered emphatically yes. He then rambled about how important "our allies" are for 2 minutes.
He didn't emphatically say yes to anything. He deflected, like a typical Democrat. If his public position on Israel clears the bar for "pro-genocide", then I guess we're fucked, because then there's hardly a single politician in America that's not pro-genocide.
There are roughly 18 in the senate, as of the most recent vote. It's definitely far from the public, or at least I would have liked to think that before Donald fucking Trump got reelected.
If people actually voted in primaries then maybe we can actually choose somebody. The fact that you people still have these rigged primary conspiracies after successfully forcing an incumbent to step down is silly beyond belief.
The sad truth is millions more people voted for Hillary Clinton than Bernie Sanders in the primary in 2016.
It's been what? Two weeks? We sure give up quickly.
Fighting against fascism is about constant small victories. Saying no. Suing at every step. Making it to the next election with things as intact as we can make them. Maybe it won't work, though it is sure as hell better than expecting the Democrats to step up. If we want reform, let's cause reform.
Trump won by 1.6% of the popular vote. Not a single one of us are as alone as we think. Yeah, sure, a break would be great. We don't get that. Moreover, we are a young country and in that time there have been governments who to many people were fascist in nature, repressive on a good day. We came out of those times better than we were because we stood up together. It's time to hold accountable those who deserve it once again. Freedom has a price and we are mostly here because of our apathy, make no mistake, and our unwillingness to engage in greater numbers locally and in midterms. However, from there it's on the people near and at the top.
We are the ingredients. Every action we take, even something as small as standing up for a couple in a restaurant, is a small push back.
That's not generally the way fascism is defeated. Sometimes yes, but it usually takes a somewhat more aggressive approach. We should take that possible future seriously as well, even as we work to avoid it.
Yeah, this "shavings make a pile" strategy is quaint, but fascists generally only understand one message, and it's historically delivered at the end of a fist. And Democrats are proving themselves to very much NOT be a party of fighters.
Biden has essentially been granted a King's powers and is showing the world exactly who he is by accomplishing exactly nothing, when there are no recriminations for pushing to do ALL that he claimed he would when he took the office. He is the worlds most self-impotent empty suit.
People are dealing with a serious fucking blow. Emotionally.
Probably a liiiitle soon to declare a give-up.
Demolish Citizens United. That would make a world of difference.
In the eyes of informed voters too.
It's the Democratic Party.
The US just elected a child rapist, and convicted felon, who praised Hitler's generals and said he wants to be a dictator. Oh, and he also wants to ahave everyone who ever stood against him murdered. Only 30% of eligible voters actively tried to stop it.
If you thought the Dems were conservative before, just wait and see how far right they can jump in order to chase the only group that will show up to the polls every damn time, no matter how stupid, or how fake and repeatedly disproven the reason is.
If the Democratic response to a dumb plan failing over and over is going to be "do it harder" again, then I guess America is just over. Republicans are what Republicans are. Voters are what voters have always been. We can blame them all we want, but it won't get us anywhere. We fix the Democratic party, or try to survive until reconstruction.
It's obvious that they are paying attention and learning. You can see it in the candidates they offer election after election. They have learned that liberals can't be bothered to vote and will always find an excuse not to vote, and if they do vote, it will be a "protest" vote that essentially cuts off their own nose to teach their face a lesson. The only people that they can actually get elected are conservatives that are not hard core conservative enough to be Republicans, but also not liberal enough to get conservatives to come out in mass to vote against them. So, that is who they will continue to offer up, conservative candidates with a chance get elected.
So, good job, you taught them a lesson, and you can be damn sure they took it to heart.
I'd say it's obvious that some members of the establishment are paying attention and learning.
Then they (you) actually haven't learned a damn thing. Hell, even fucking James Carville is suddenly saying that Bernie had it right.
Harris spent the last month+ of her campaign bragging about support from CEOs, promising to put a Republican in her cabinet, and touring with Liz Cheney. The idea that she made a real effort to engage liberals and leftists is pure fiction.
Even saying it's liberals and leftists that didn't show up is wrong. Leftists are the most reliable voters in the country. It's working class Americans that didn't show up for Harris or voted for Trump. Leftists tell the establishment how to get working class voters, the establishment ignores them, working class voters stay home, then the establishment blames leftists.
Are you delusional? Of course they engaged with conservatives and and ignored you. YOU DON'T SHOW UP. How many times do I have to repeat this for you to understand? You don't show up for local races, you don't show up for primaries, you really don't show up for midterms, and you didn't show up to stop a full on Hitler wannabe.
Why in the the hell would they ever cater to people who don't show up, especially if doing so turns away the people who do show up? You don't even show up to do your protest votes. If enough of you showed up to do protest votes, then trying to win your vote might be worthwhile, but you don't show up. And that means that those people who do protest vote are not only wasting everyone's time, but also effectively choosing the fascists.
If you want them to care what you think, you have to show up.
If you actually want to understand what happened, these two videos are a good start.
This Is A Huge Problem
BIDEN AND THE DEMOCRATS DOOMED US TO A TRUMP VICTORY
I DID SHOW UP. This explains so much. Unlike you, I don't judge the truth of a statement based on how often it's repeated. No matter how many times you and corporate media make this incorrect claim, it isn't going convince me. I prefer evidence like this Pew study that found the political left to be the most engaged, "that is, they voted at the highest rates in the 2020 presidential election, and they are most likely to say they post about politics on social media and that they donated to campaigns".
As I TOLD YOU ALREADY, it's regular working class voters who stay home in droves.
I absolutely love the deluded framing of this sentence. I reject the premise but, even if I didn't, does it not occur to you that the ability of "people who do show up" to "turn away" means they are exactly as fickle as you falsely accuse the left of being?
Democrats aren't balancing the preferences of the "median voter" with the preferences of progressives. That is a lie. Modern elections are won on turnout, and Democrats are weighing the working class appetite for populist messaging with the demands of the donor class. Right wing populism doesn't threaten capital in the same way as left wing populism, so Republicans get a lot more leeway in embracing (foe) populist messaging. Democrats try to strike a balance between voters and donors, which is why all of our elections have razor thin margins. Whenever Democrats miscalculate and give in too much to their donors, the Republicans take power.
Less less people voted tin the 2024 presidential election than in the 2020 election. This is a basic fact. Twist it turn it, divide it how you want, they did not show up. Even in 2020, only 2/3 of eligible voters cast a ballot. Since the majority of eligible voters identify as liberal, the fact that only 33% of the voters voted liberal in 2020 means that a smaller percentage of liberal voters bothered to vote than conservatives. So even though they won, they didn't really bother to show up. Less than 50% of the eligible voters voted in 2022, and that is significantly down from 2018. This is not complicated, it's grade school math.
Maybe you do need basic repetition to get through to you. If you didn't vote then Trump is your fault. If you voted for anyone other than Kamala, then Trump is your fault.
You had a temper tantrum and now you are trying blame the consequences on everyone else, but the Dems are not going to chase your vote if you don't bother to cast it.
Well, your apparently disingenuous argument was of a repeating pattern so, even if we assume the gap is made up of leftists, your argument is still invalid. Why would Harris' campaign ignore leftists because leftists don't show up if leftists showed up in 2020?
How about "substantiate it"? We know that someone didn't show, but it's not leftists. It's never leftists, and this bullshit gets thrown around every damn time. By the time the analysis is done the establishment humpers have moved on.
Your math still just shows that someone didn't show.
Working class voters with no particular allegiance and zero interest in political theory are the voters you are looking for. They show up when inspired. Harris wasn't inspiring.
The left isn't telling the establishment how to get our votes, we're telling them how to get working class voters.
Sure, we have some idiots in our ranks, but so does every group. We also have a boatload of trolls pretending to be leftists to sow division, and assholes like you play right into their hands. If you had any impact at all on people voting for Harris, I guarantee it went the other way. You can't berate people into voting your way, just ask Hillary.
I DID SHOW UP. Fucking hell.
You want ingredients? I have a cocktail recipe