If you want to torture yourself it's a 1 hour podcast with Matty Yglesias and the third guest works at something called the American Immigration Council. Despite that name - he's another total turd worried about birth tourism.
Back in the day, I used to do a policy podcast at Vox with Matthew Yglesias, who is now the author of the excellent Substack newsletter Slow Boring, and Dara Lind, who’s now a senior fellow at the American Immigration Council.
Rules/laws serve a purpose, they're not ends