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does no one else see the ethical quandary of relying on cheap exploited labor for our food?
Sure, but it’s more in the “no ethical consumption under capitalism” kind of way rather than anything specific about the exploitation of the undocumented migrants. Exploitation goes into almost everything around us, and it’s something we have to deal with and work to improve unless we want to completely disconnect from modern society.
Just scanning the room around me, I wonder what the full labor history looks like in the value chain that produced my TV, the phone in my hand, my computer parts, the shirt on my back, AND the food in my kitchen.
If some of the farm labor that went into my food was from an undocumented immigrant that really wants to stay in this country and keep his or her job, I am not happy about the set of circumstances, but I also don’t want to rip that person out of their community and send them somewhere they do not want to go.
We tried to resolve this with legislation and the right wing crazies killed it each time. It's not like the average Democratic voter wants an undocumented underclass. The business interests do. And the GOP leadership gets to fund raise on the caravans.
Most Americans want a better life for these people. Step one isn't to spend a trillion dollars to deport them all.
Absolutely! But at the same time, it highlights the income inequality the majority of Americans are experiencing.
Leadership, yes. I would argue it is intentional. Citizens... well, clearly not some half of the electorate.
for sure. but maybe the losses would be less if they rolled out a 12 month plan to get papers for everyone instead?
who's losses?
the economic effects mentioned within the linked article
100% this.
I'm not a fan of the hamfisted way Trump and Musk are going about all this.
But at the same time, I look at this and have to wonder the outcome...
If agricultural corporations can't hire cheap undocumented Latin American people to work the farms, they will have to pay more to hire Americans to do the same job. Yes that will drive up grocery prices, but on some level, if that means more Americans are able to afford those groceries isn't that sort of maybe a good thing?
Every time I see a company complain of labor shortage, it is obvious to me that the problem isn't labor the problem is the company doesn't want to pay what the labor market demands. You tell me you can't find anybody to hire, so I ask if you offered $100/hr for this job would your inbox be overflowing with applicants? If the answer is yes, then the problem isn't that you can't find anybody, it is the supply and demand of the labor market and your only problem is you don't want to pay the market rate for labor. That's not the market's problem.
They're not going to pay a decent wage to pick food. They're going to enslave you and force you to pick the food for the same wages as before, if not less.
You keep expecting them to suddenly start playing by the rules. You don't matter anymore to them. They've written off the need to win your vote.
You are mixing up your 'they's. There are multiple theys each with their own motivations. Frequently their interests align. Not always.
I don't expect anybody with money and power to play by THE rules, but everybody plays by SOME rules. Understand the rules each player is playing by, and you understand the game a lot better.
I don't for a second think Trump's motivation behind deporting people is pure as the driven snow. I'm sure for many people behind that policy, perhaps including Trump himself, there is a lot of thinly veiled racism or not so thinly veiled racism and a bunch of xenophobia too.
That doesn't mean it's impossible that it will work, and bring about some sort of positive result.
For me, the big problem with illegal immigration is it creates an easily exploitable underclass. A group of people who will work themselves to the fucking bone for peanuts, who can be exploited at will because they can't call the government to enforce labor regs. That creates a situation for employers that they can hire these people by the thousands, treat them like dirt, pay them barely anything, have them work in horrible conditions, and then basically toss them on the street. That situation is bad for everybody. It's certainly bad for Americans because if those exploitable people are available as labor why wouldn't an employer hire them rather than an American who will demand higher wages and better working conditions?
Ending that system of exploitation will suck, it will be a painful process that will destabilize food and labor markets. And knowing Trump, I'm quite sure there will be a lot of civil rights abuses, which I am strongly against. Everybody deserves to be treated with humanity and respect, including undocumented people who are being deported. But I also think that before we dive 100% into saying the whole thing is a bad idea, we should consider potential long-term effects. And if the result over the entire American labor market is there is no longer a cheap exploitable under-class, I think that's a good thing for everybody.
It's clear you only have a surface level understanding of the issue so you should either read up or be quiet on the topic. Your ignorance isn't of any value.
Well there's a lot of information and different positions, most of which doesn't fit into a single post. Can you explain what specifically you think I've missed?
Don't worry, we have plenty of prison slave labor available