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does sh.itjust.works allow criticism of CCP?
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this post was submitted on 11 Jun 2023
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The Lemmy project openly describes itself in its public documentation as anti-US, and was apparently founded around the idea that Reddit is fundamentally anti-China and pro-US: https://join-lemmy.org/docs/en/users/07-history-of-lemmy.html
The doc starts off talking about open source, but it quickly becomes clear that the Lemmy project is primarily political in nature.
To me this is concerning -- what happens when largely pro-US Reddit refugees swarm a community (community in the general sense, not the Lemmy sense) which was intended by the founders to combat those peoples views? Sure, instances and people can choose to ignore the lemmy.ml instance, but the founders control the project at a much deeper level than that.
Personally I hope that alternative implementations that are compatible with Lemmy arise, totally outside of the influence of the original founders. Yes there is kbin, but I actually prefer the Lemmy model (from what I've seen so far), and I think there would only be benefits of having another high quality implementation which is totally separate yet totally compatible with the original Lemmy. It would make the whole thing more resilient, and could be fertile ground for future improvements to flourish.
Is that post really anti us and pro china though? To me it looks like anti pro us, and anti anti china.
Also, how do you see the founders controlling the project more? Especially at the "much deeper level"?
I'm a New Zealander living in The Netherlands, whether you choose to believe that or not.
I had already formed conclusions after reading through one of the founder's comment histories (which I'd encourage), so my reading of it may have been biased. Either way it's clear that the motivation driving them is, or at least was, largely political in nature.
They own the github repo, they control what code gets committed, they control whether the project lives or dies really. They have the power to lose interest or decide to abandon the project, at which point the best hope the community has is that others pick it up. It's not normally something I worry too much about with open source projects but again, strong geopolitical associations makes it feel precarious to me -- if they don't like where things are going, maybe they'd feel motivated to actively shut it down and discourage any peaceful transition of (code) ownership. Obviously this is all conjecture.
I'm not sure why you think I'd have trouble believing that!
Couldn't someone just fork it and update current servers with that fork and still keep all of the data though? It should still just work the same but just not be from a codebase controlled by the founders
I'd think if they would resist a "global citizen" approach in favour of the now de-facto "hegemonic nations" approach, that would be a good reason for offering such a fork. ... It could quickly supersede the "old Lemmy" when people start to realise that the new system allows migration and resilience against domain-takedowns. :-)
@CowsLookLikeMaps@sh.itjust.works
That's right. It's a legitimate solution if the lead dev drives it into the ground. I don't think lack of developers to fork or maintain it would be an issue. The only barrier I see is adoption of yet another platform. So in my mind, there's always an option to just separate if Lemmy turns into one big tankie brigade. But forking is still a PITA and not ideal.
I don't think using a fork would separate it into another platform. It would still be Lemmy. They would only need to separate of their code bases change so drastically between the two that going to other instances from the forked one starts breaking things. And even then workarounds could then be put in the former version so everything still plays nice.
Even better!
Criticising pro-US doesn't necessarily mean anti-US, you can be in the middle. Similarly, criticising anti-China doesn't necessarily mean pro-China. Praising when something good was really done and criticising when something bad was really done, you can achieve at least some level of unbiased, rational and reasonable opinion.