this post was submitted on 10 Aug 2023

0 points (NaN% liked)

men

7 readers

1 users here now

This magazine is dedicated to discussions of issues that men and boys face, especially disadvantages or discrimination due to their gender, from an egalitarian perspective.

founded 2 years ago

Feminists treat men badly. It’s bad for feminism. [WaPo, archived] (web.archive.org)

submitted 2 years ago by a-man-from-earth@kbin.social to c/men@kbin.social

6 comments fedilink hide all child comments

This is an excellent article by Cathy Young, exposing some of the widespread misandry within feminism.

I don't agree with every point she makes. I think the 1848 demonizing of men is way more serious and shouldn't be so easily dismissed. But that doesn't take away from her main point: feminism is full of misandry, and if they want to be taken seriously by men, they need to address that.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments

[–] gapbetweenus@feddit.de 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

The effects of feminism are clearly biased against men.

Not sure what you mean? They are "biased" in the sense that the societal structures favored men and feminism challenged that. But that is also the whole point.

[+] Halafax@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

[deleted]

[–] gapbetweenus@feddit.de 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I think you would have to convince me that “societal structures” do in fact favor men. I don’t think they do.

You would kind of have first to look at societal structures when feminism came up. Those obviously changed dramatically (at least in the west) but so did feminism.

my son has been turned away from several classes and trips.

Sounds wild to me, living in Germany.

Men get higher prison sentences than women for the same crimes.

How exactly is feminism responsible for that?

Women get preferential placement and additional resources in education and employment if it is believed that women are under represented,

Which is bad because?

Men are under represented in higher education enrollment

Due to systematic discrimination or because they chose other opportunities?

Men pay more in taxes

Why do men pay more taxes, is it an US thing - definitely not the case in Germany for example.

and receive fewer benefits from government services than women.

Again how would this be related to feminism. Are feminist running USA? Trump? Joe Biden? For real?!

Men in the US have to sign up for selective service, women do not. As a man I would not feel safe calling the police if I was attacked by a woman, the police are more likely to arrest/assault me than my assailant.

You literally describe how patriarchy is negatively affecting men. Which is also criticized by feminism. Maybe you need to read a bit.

[+] Halafax@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

[deleted]

[–] gapbetweenus@feddit.de 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Why punish me and my son for a situation I had no benefit from?

Again I don't see how you, or your son are being punished by feminism. My point was also more about that feminism has a history of addressing societal power structures though the lens of gender. Obviously it will have some outdated elements, but it is being constantly evolved to address more modern problems women - and if you go into more modern version marginalized groups in general experience.

f anything, contemporary feminism is doubling down on demonizing men and insisting on yet more special benefits for women.

Would be curious to read up how intersectional feminism is demonizing men.

Feminists are still actively fighting for lower penalties for women while ignoring the plight of incarcerated men. Scotland is trying to get rid of women’s prisons entirely. Women get sympathy, men get the stick.

How are lower penalties for women related to feminism, that does not make any sense. Isn't it more the tradtional societal view of men being the violent and aggressive ones that is responsible for men getting an unfair treatment when it comes to sentencing?

You don’t know what the reason is, and no one much cares. When men outnumbered women, changes were made. Now that women outnumber men, you stopped caring. Ta da, feminism!

But the reason would be the whole point. Is there a systemic disadvantage, then the state needs to intervene - no need to intervene in personal choice. Women choosing to be a stay at home mom, no need to intervene. Women having to stay at home because they have no other realistic choices. That's bad.

they earn more because of social expectations

So there is a pay gap, you might say - pretty sure feminism is addressing that issue.

I think it highlights the fact that more is expected from men

But again feminism also deals with expectation put by society on men. For a personal example: I was raised by a rather feminist mother - and I don't really feel any societal pressure on me as a man. Because that's not what I tie my value as human being to.

Male suicide and homelessness is are major current issues,

That is an issue, but again - how is feminism at fault? This is more tied into USA being very neo liberal and having very little social market economy elements, which can greatly reduce the pressure on an individual.

can you stop for a moment and ask if feminism did anything to oppose it?

Sure, feminism is challenging the whole structure that is responsible for the most problems you describe. You talk about the pressure of societal pressure men feel - where does it come from. From feminist world view or from the conservative world view. Does feminism expect men to be the sole earner for a family?

Patriarchy is a theory that can’t be tested, nor can it make any useful predictions. It’s an idea that men rule for the benefit of men, but that’s clearly not happening. I think oligarchy or plutocracy are closer to what you see, but it’s just easier to blame men.

Patriarchy is not a theory it an observation of power structures. You can doubt of how much of it is left in modern times, but come on: women could not vote, work, study or be practically an independent adult for quite the long time in history and still can't in some parts of the world. It's silly to claim that there was never a power dis balance between men an women.

[+] RandoCalrandian@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

[deleted]

[–] gapbetweenus@feddit.de 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

How about by the Duluth Model teaching cops to always arrest the male, leading to far more and far more harmful systemic sexist discrimination?

Is it based on feminist theory or rather in the conservative view of the male as aggressive and violent?

Are they allowed to feel affected by that, oh arbiter of what people are and aren’t being affected by?

I did not apply for that position, not sure why you are asking me. People are allowed to feel how ever they feel like. Oh wait, not in conservative society.

How about males being specifically ignored in sexual assault data collection, leading to 7 out of every 10 adult US men having been strapped down and mutilated as children having to listen to people whine about the “sexual assault epidemic” and how 1 in 4 women are “victims”?

Again, how is this feminist fault? Once again the classical archetype of a man being aggressive and violent seems to be the problem here. Like the other guy, you are blaming feminism for issues that clearly root in patriarchal view in men.

How about having a gun thrown in their hands while feminists have and continue to exempt themselves and other women from the draft, at every opportunity, including last year?

Now feminist invented the draft?

You could try going outside and seeing the billboards saying “1 in 4 homeless are women, donate to a women’s specific homeless shelter today to stop this epidemic!” like i have to?

How is this demonizing men?

tbh, i can keep going, but at this point you’re clearly delusional in your defense of feminism, and i should know because i have this same “my cult is never wrong” discussion with religious people, and they use the same arguments and tactics to protect their worldview from being challenged.

Sure much easier just to say your opponent is delusional and ride into the sunset. Why answering me in the first place if you think that a conversation with me has no merit?

a sexist one that blames all men for the actions of a few

Except it does not.

and ignores any and all women perpetuating those actions,

It explicitly does not.

Have you ever read anything by feminist outside some crazy people on the internet. Like Simone de Beauvoir or something? You seem to have a completely wrong understanding.

[+] Halafax@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

[deleted]

[–] gapbetweenus@feddit.de 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

From the Wikipedia article it seems to work rather well:

An early U.S. government sponsored study found that batterers who complete programs based on the Duluth Model are less likely to repeat acts of domestic violence than those who do not complete any batterers' intervention program

And the feminist author seems to have realized it short comings herself. But sure like with anything there will be bad expressions of feminism.

I really don't get why you prescribe the violent aggressive man to feminist theory. It's the opposite - that is the classical view of men and often the root of the problems men face in society. Feminism on the other hand tells men that they can have other roles, they don't need to be the defender, protector, earner etc. - does not mean that they can't - but that they can chose. It's the conservative view that puts all the pressure on that you are experiencing.