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!ukpolitics@lemm.ee appears to have vanished! We can still see cached content from this link, but goodbye I guess! :'(
Nice to finally hear some small positive news from here on terf island.
The vast majority of science going back to pre-WWII says the answer is yes.
Evidence through link.
https://whatweknow.inequality.cornell.edu/topics/lgbt-equality/what-does-the-scholarly-research-say-about-the-well-being-of-transgender-people/
Knowing now that the scientific consensus is yes, do you believe that trans women are women?
This is about the affects on the wellbeing of transgender people when they get a sex change operation.
The answer to the question involves biology, philosophy, theology, neuroscience, ethics, and statistics, among others most likely. You'll probably get a different answer depending who you ask. I think it should be less about that question you asked and moreso how can we ethically make those people feel comfortable with themselves as well as the rest of society comfortable with integrating people who choose to identify as the opposite sex.
Please stop dodging the question. It’s a simple yes or no question that is fundamental to the discussion of trans people’s right to live as they are equally to cis people of the same gender.
It's not a simple yes or no question. Seeing everything in black and white is part of the problem.
As it stands and in light of the Supreme Court Ruling, I wouldn't see a transgender woman to be as equally a woman as a cisgendered woman, but I wouldn't see her as a man either. It depends on what you're talking about, whether it's socially, medically, neurologically, theologically, ethically, in the eyes of everyone else, legally, etc.
I am a transgender woman. I look like a woman, I think like a woman, I have the hormones of a woman, I have experienced the misogyny that women experience, I have used women’s washrooms and change rooms and other spaces for a decade at this point without issue, I have used these spaces along side cis women who knew that I am trans and cis women who didn’t know. There has never been an issue because I am a woman who uses those spaces like any other. I have been socialized like a woman, I feel like a woman, I identify as a woman.
Am I a woman?
Good question.
The answer is yes.
Couldn't a cis woman in a changing room tell that you were trans by your... Yknow
I used the stalls that are often in there. Also not every trans woman has that between her legs. Surgery is relatively commonly undergone so there would be no way to tell to the point even gynaecologists assume a person is cis when they’re actually trans unless told before hand.
Regardless I have never had a cis woman be uncomfortable around me in any woman’s space not just change rooms. My experience is not an outlier as I have known many trans women who have used women spaces without issue.
Learn about things before you make yourself look like an idiot on the Internet, dude
That's what I'm here to do
No, youre clearly here to argue against people who know more than you while reading basically none of the replies and actually understanding them
😐😑😐
Hey so I watched a video that really explains all this really well and figured I’d share it with you. For the record I do think our discussion was fruitful and amicable and that you did actually read what I said.
Anyways here’s the link https://youtu.be/BRg3t7KINzw
That was actually a very informing video. I think as well, it kinda hits home as I have faced transphobic abuse before despite being a cis man. Are there actually any statistics on people claiming to be trans to commit sex abuse?
I don’t believe there are any because generally speaking people don’t need to claim to be trans to do so. As I’ve said previously, a sign on a door is not a magic barrier, if someone wants to commit abuse of any kind they can just walk in and do that. All that this anti-trans bathroom etc stuff does is give people a legal pass to challenge a persons cis-ness and harass them that way regardless of if they are actually trans or not.
That is the real concern and there have already been credible reports of this harassment happening to people. Meanwhile there hasn’t been any credible reports of cis people pretending to be trans to abuse people.
Eh... On your last claim, if IIRC, Chris Chan is believed to have transitioned to try and get with lesbians. I don't think this was a factor in what he later did.
There were some allegations against keffals and having a weird discord server. Again, could have been done without a transition. But it was still off.
I think the main case is the sex abuser Isla Bryson, AMAB who attempted to be moved to a female prison. It was stopped, albeit not soon enough.
Ok so simply put trans people are people which means there will be bad and good people same with cis people. Just because a trans person did a bad thing doesn’t mean they aren’t still the gender they identify as or that they’re secretly cis.
I’m not excusing their actions but simply saying that trans people are still the gender they identify as regardless of their actions just like how gay men are still gay if they do bad things. It’s a matter of identity rather than action.
Another thing to add is that cis women also abuse and rape other women but they don’t get put in men’s prisons right? Trans women are women and should be placed in the prison that matches their gender.
Eh, I wouldn't go as far as the last point. Cis women cannot impregnate other women. Unless they don't pose any risk to anyone there (due to a sexual/violent history), are on good behaviour and have suitably transitioned enough. Even better if they transitioned before their crime, then I can see it. But Isla Bryson, definitely not. But I think we can agree to disagree, there.
HRT ie Hormone replacement therapy makes trans people sterile. Also I previously that there have not been credible reports what you have cited are not credible. You yourself acknowledge in your previous comment that what you referenced was based on rumours. Im also willing to bet that those rumours were mostly spread by cis people as there is no credible evidence of these people you mentioned being secretly cis.
No cis person is going to go through the extensive often strenuous process to get on hormones. Which cause sterility as well as physical changes to their body just so that they can rape/abuse women. That is simply not the case. Also whether the crime was committed before or after transition doesn’t matter because ultimately transitioning as a trans person is about identity, not action.
The action is bad but is ultimately unrelated to said persons identity. A cereal killer can be gay but that doesn’t mean that their gayness is contingent or even because of their cereal killer actions. It’s simply part of their identity a coincidence essentially.