this post was submitted on 12 Jul 2025
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Hey thanks for compiling this and starting a discussion and/or highlighting this issue, I hope to get back to that after I looked through your links. In general I feel like discussions around creator responsibilty, having a huge platform with lots of funding etc. are something kinda lacking in the online spaces I frequent. I think on twitter/mastodon/bluesky there is way more of this.
In the meantime I think it would be helpful for you to write / describe the key points (or link to a summary) you wanted to share. This might make it easier to fully understand your post and what you want to convey in a more accessible way, especially because Lemmy mostly is seems to be mostly text based.
EDIT: Managed to watch parts of the first and second video you linked. I learned new things and recommend others to watch them too. Its pretty instructive to have takes / statements of influencal breadtubers recontextualized and kinda picked apart
I can try to clarify this post as well as I can, the way I see things now. I don't see things on this topic as I did a few years back. Understanding can be a process.
I agree with JVP because I oppose colonialism in every form and all the propaganda that goes with it. Here are some of the things JVP say, and I would recommend reading all the text:
To try to sustain an apartheid state, a lot of effort is needed, both internally and internationally. Propaganda (among other things) does that, but it also has its limits. Israeli anti-zionists are proof of this.
We know that white people in South Africa created a system that worked in their favor, and that they vocalized, acted upon, and legislated the dehumanization of the locals, just like Israeli-Zionists do. Still, they got over it, and it was not a fairy tale experience. To my understanding, at least some power imbalance is still present, but the fact that it is not institutionalized is super important imo.
If white people in S.A. did it, Zionists in Israel can do it too. Even if it doesn't seem possible right now. Let's remember it didn't seem possible for S.A. either. For me, this is realistic. I am not saying that this is the only possibility, clearly not. I am saying it is a possibility worth pursuing, and it can be achieved with adequate international pressure. There is an example to follow, copy the good stuff, and avoid the mistakes.
So I cannot accept that a person with progressive perpectives on many topics, and as well-read as Nataly, is not aiming towards any kind solution. On the contrary, in her reddit post, she is repeating typical Zionist propaganda. She also says other nonsensical stuff, as well as plain lies. You can decide for yourself, the text is just below. I hope that she will change her mind, and soon.
Contrapoints' post on Reddit
[source: https://www.reddit.com/r/ContraPoints/comments/1lvxfqo/thoughts_on_ip/]
Of course, there are so many more things to say on this matter, but I will stop here because I don't want this to get even longer.
Some resources from JVP, and I would suggest spending time on their site:
JVP FREE FILM LIBRARY
Nakba Fact Sheet
About Facing the Nakba