402
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 17 Aug 2023
402 points (98.8% liked)
Europe
8324 readers
1 users here now
News/Interesting Stories/Beautiful Pictures from Europe 🇪🇺
(Current banner: Thunder mountain, Germany, 🇩🇪 ) Feel free to post submissions for banner pictures
Rules
(This list is obviously incomplete, but it will get expanded when necessary)
- Be nice to each other (e.g. No direct insults against each other);
- No racism, antisemitism, dehumanisation of minorities or glorification of National Socialism allowed;
- No posts linking to mis-information funded by foreign states or billionaires.
Also check out !yurop@lemm.ee
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
I think public indecency laws against JUST nudity are silly.
Personally I find a person who have willingly "fermented" themselves by not showering to be more indecent, and the majority socially ostracize said individuals, but it's still not illegal, nor should it be, and neither should public nudity.
In nude saunas the rule is you have to sit on a towel. If you're worried about people sitting on stuff with their dirty ass then it seems that should be the law.
Besides, what disease can you get by sitting with clothes on where someone previously sat naked? I don't think it's a disease issue, just gross. But people sitting in dirty/soiled clothing is the same thing (arguably potentially worse) and that's not illegal.
I would recommend against licking chairs in public places regardless what people are wearing.
That's fecal-oral route. Are you planning on licking where nudists are sitting? Not judging here, just asking.
Nah, I already know that people would use this to "accidentally"/secretly rub their genitals on you. People are doing this already with their clothes on.
And the crime here would be the sexual act.
We cannot punish nudism just because "it might make people act offensively". Otherwise, lets just cover all of our bodies like they do in the middle east.
I am just curious if you don't care or really think it wouldn't happen that people would for example use this to harass people?
Also, that's a slippery slope argument from you as well. I am not saying people should cover up themselves. But I do think we should not make it even worse for those people who are already getting harassed on a regular basis in the name of freedom. What is with their freedom?
I think we as a society are far from decent enough to each other to basically throw those people who are already disproportionally affected by harassment under the bus completely.
That's specious reasoning.
You’re trying some appeal to emotion angle, where you align not restricting people’s choices with the act of sexual assault. Something you also admit people are already doing today, with such restrictions in place.
I think we as a society can never be better unless we make every step that we can. Freeing up the most natural thing we all have is one of a thousand we must make.
I am not trying to "appeal some emotional angle". I am trying to say what I believe will realistically happen if you were to right now allow people to be nude in public.
You haven't been to any nude beaches have you? They are exactly the same as clothed beaches just without the swimwear. You have to understand that in most places in Europe nudity is not something sexual. Acts are. Tbis is a cultural difference with the USA, where nudity itself is considered sexual. Hence films with bodily mutilation can be watched by children because no female nipple can be seen.
I totally get why this might be strange or even hard to believe. Just try to keep an open mind and be tolerant is all I ask.
I’ve grown up in a country with nudity a common and normal occurrence. There are places in parks were people were (and are) partially naked, my family was often naked at home, I have no trouble at all with nudist beaches or tanning naked etc.
But I was reacting to someone suggesting that showing up nude in public anywhere you want should never be seen as an offence.
And I am convinced this would lead to an increase in sexual harassment. Because it is very different to be naked at the beach, in the park or even walking naked down the streets from, for example, having your gymnast teacher teach you while they are being naked, or allowing people to be naked in public transportation and similar situations.
I believe that in our current society (I am not talking about an ideal world, but the actual, current world) this would cause overall more harm than promoting freedom. The way people are completely naive, in my opinion, how some people will actually use this opportunity to harass others is honestly baffling to me. I can only imagine that people underestimate how common harassment is in everyday life and that they don’t automatically assume all the consequences this would have (probably a good thing).
Things that would happen when you would pass such a new law:
Just a hole bunch of new situations that you can’t defend against and that regularly won’t be able to proof.
If that’s not immediately what comes to your mind, you’re probably a man and / or very lucky.
And the notion of “well harassment is already illegal” is completely worthless because you are already pretty much powerless to defend yourself from harassment since it’s near to impossible to proof in the majority of cases. Do we really want to even increase this problem when we haven’t really made any progress yet, as a society, to battle the problems we already have in this regard?
Is this GPT-3 talking?
No, but maybe you can ask an AI if you struggle to understand opinions that differ from yours?
Ad hominem?
I wish you well
And you want to throw the nudists that are not doing any harm under the bus? What about their freedom?
People doing crimes should be punished and people not doing any harm should be free to do what they want.
People that "are already disproportionately affected by harassment" should be protected, but not by affecting others that are not doing anything wrong.
The problem is that inpur current society people guilty of these crimes are already in the majority of cases not punished at all.
And I am not throwing nudist under the bus. I say that when you right now would allow people to go nude in places like public transport, schools, universities, etc. that the amount of sexual harassment will increase.
I have not a single person actually address this, or do you honestly believe that's not the case? It rather seems that you don't care that this would happen.
Your argument works just as well (or badly) to ban e.g. alcohol because some people misbehave when drunk or to ban revealing clothing because some people misbehave when they see cleavage.
I think we should ban alcohol, actually. I don't think there should be a ban on people being nude. Why do you try to twist my words?
The question is: do you believe, if we were to allow people being nude right now, that the cases of sexual harassment will increase or not?
If people are already doing it with clothes, what's the harm in making it legal to be naked? Fuck, we're all human. Let's be real, people are just too prude to accept something like this.
ಠ_ಠ
Well, I didn't really appreciate the grown man rubbing his clothed genital at my backside on my way to school. Didn't help me much with my mental health either. Very likely would have been worse when he was naked.
Huh? Sexual assault is illegal. I'm sorry that happened to you, but that has nothing to do with the topic at hand.
Well I think it does. Sexual assault happens already often and I believe allowing people to be naked in public will increase the chance of sexual harassment and potentially even assault.
Do you believe how people dress makes them responsible for how others treat them? I.e., if a girl wears a skirt that's 'a little too short' and gets assaulted, was she asking for it?
No I don't. And that is not what I am saying at all.
All I am saying is that I believe in current society allowing people to be naked in public will increase the amount of sexual harassment.
I'm sorry for your experience but it doesn't make your opinion any more valid.
Why is my opinion ("I think allowing people to be nude in public will increase sexual harassment cases") invalid?
Because it is demonstrably incorrect
Because if you apply any critical thinking its obviously an incorrect assumption. And it is an assumption, you have no proof but your feelings. What was it y'all were saying about feelings a couple years back?
How does critical thinking show that my assumption is incorrect? Please enlighten me.
For the record, no one is diminishing what happened to you. Im really sorry to hear that. Those sexual acts should be punished. There is no question to that.
However punishing nudity just because some people are misbehaving is not right.
I am not saying to punish nudity, wth??
Yes, you are. You are suggesting that nudism shouldn't be allowed because it might increase sexual assaults.
If you are going to discuss something, read the whole discussion and reply to it, not just select one line.
I reacted directly to someone saying nudity in public in general should be allowed. I don't have a problem with allowing nudity in specific areas like beaches etc.
And what exactly is the problem of allowing nudity in public in general?