this post was submitted on 24 May 2026
162 points (100.0% liked)
WomensStuff
1113 readers
239 users here now
Women only trans inclusive This is an inclusive community for all things women. Whether you're here for make up tips, feminism or just friendly chit chat, we've got you covered.
Rules…
- Women only… trans women are women, and transphobic or gender critical talk isn’t allowed. Anyone under the trans umbrella (e.g. non-binary, bigender, agender) is free to decide whether a women's community is a good fit for them.
- Don’t be a dick. No personal attacks, no aggression, play nice.
- Don’t hate on groups, hatefilled talk about groups is not allowed. Ever.
- No governmental politics, so no talk of Trump actions etc. We recommend Feminism@beehaw.org for that, but here is an escape from it.
- New accounts or users with few comments may have their posts removed to prevent spam and bad-faith participation.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
I think the issue with this opinion is the core assumption that all men necessarily have all encompassing views on all women. Once you don't evaluate people based on random groups they have no real choice in being a part of, you stop having ideas such as "women deserve X" or "Blacks deserve Y" or "All men are Z" or any other form of bigotry.
So as frustrating as the patriarchy is, and as much as it sucks that significant portions of our society is inherently sexist, racist, homophobic, transphobic, and much more. We won't solve it by just being sexist the other way, nor will we teach the next generation to empathize with those who are different. We need to be honest with ourselves and ask "Am I judging people based on their actions, or based on immutable attributes?"
The tags society assign to you (be it gender, race, religion, etc) mean nothing about your value. Your actions and beliefs are the metrics that should be used to evaluate you as a person.
In no way did this statement suggest all men were mistreating women. You read that into it yourself.
This could easily be applied to anyone for any subject without being problematic.
I did not say that it did, I said that it made generalizations about men
It's not a generalization to say a group treats another group as well as they deserve, since "as good as they deserve" can mean anything.
The generalization here is that all men have an idea of what all women deserve, as if all men judge women based on their gender
That's an interpretation I didn't see at all, and I don't believe is supported by the wording of the statement. Being aware of a group and deciding how that group ought to be treated does not mean they will be treated differently for being members of that group.
I still think you're applying a bias here, and the statement is designed to expose those biases because it really isn't saying anything at all. Aside from the not changing part, which as I said I disagree with.
"There is not a single men on earth that thinks he mistreats women"
"Every man dishes out exactly what he thinks women deserve"
All men do have all encompassing views on women, they're socialised to believe them, most of them serve capitalism. Shutting your eyes to their existence, doesn't make them not there. It feels like you are trying to "not all men". If people are judged by their actions, do the 62 million men who logged onto a rape your wife website, to enjoy the uploads, just this week gone, get judged for their behaviours, what about the consistent amount of rapes actually committed, predominantly by men, the amount of women killed a year. The canary in the coal mine, died years ago. This is a systemic and cultural issue. Men are cultured to hate women, look down on women. They speak nicely to women they find attractive and treat those they don't without even basic respect. Because they're socialised to see women as an adornment put on this earth for them, an object. When you smooth over and try and imply it's bigotry to point out systemic oppression, it's right in there, with the oppressors, enabling the system. Patriarchy doesn't just suck, it kills, hundreds if not thousands a year. It's not just an annoyance.
Bullshit
There is a difference between believing "society teaches men X" or "society enables men to do Y" and believing "all men are X" or "all men do Y"
This isn't a "not all men" comment, this is a genuine discussion about how our victimhood causes us to go beyond justice and equality and into retaliatory attacks.
There is a big difference between a small comment like "all men suck" (which I still think is unhelpful and hurtful) and the deep and thought out belief that the OOP posted. To say "not all men" to the small comment is to miss the point and just be defensive, but the OOP is something else that deserves discussion, not to mention the fact that the title of this post is asking for opinions.
Just to add my pov for context:
I am AMAB but I am not a man, but society identifies me as one. I have been hurt bu people generalizing about non-cis, I have been hurt by peolle generalizing about non-straight, I have been hurt by people generalizing about women, and I have been hurt by people generalizing about men. The one that stands out the most for me is the men one, not because of any special attachment or because it is worse (it is obviously not), but because within the groups that are understanding and accepting of who I am (call it liberal, woke, progressive, idc) the generalization of men was always so casual and in the open. It reminded me of the other side, the people that I used to hate because they would openly joke about "the gays" and black people, and especially women. Everytime I heard a sexist remark I would cringe and wonder how they can be so casual about being so horribly disrespectful and aggressive towards literally half of the world? And now days I don't hang around these kinds of people, but I find myself in a very similar situation because it seems that here (while they are 10000% better) they feel comfortable to openly disrespect and be aggressive towards the other half of the world...
I will say, this is just a comment so there is a lot of nuance here, but while I draw similarities between both sides, I whole heartedly believe and feel that one side was actually horrible and the other is more of understandably flawed situation.
When you view from “humans are extremely tribal” and conform to their tribal beliefs you see a fundamental problem in shifting views. Most tribes seem to be unconsciously selected, sex, race, country etc.
I agree, but to change that, to make this world more empathetic, we can't just say "well tribalism is real so I will judge you based on the tirbe I think you belong to" we have to both accept that tribalism is real and has a real affect (which in the context of this post can be seen in rape statistics, domestic abuse statistics, etc) and that each human is an individual that has nothing to do with any tribe or statistic until proven otherwise.
If you asked me "who is the more oppressive gender in our society?" I can easily answer "men" but if you ask me "between 1 man and 1 woman, who is more oppressive?" All I can say is "I don't know them"
It’s the goal is to improve things and educate people about choices they can make. It’s depressing that so many are so self unaware and point out the failings of others without seeing themselves in the mirror. Two steps forward and one step back seems to be the way.