this post was submitted on 06 Jul 2026
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Privacy
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I'm not familiar with the purposes or history of machine-id, I'd guess that it's just a legacy artifact that can't be easily removed now.
There's definitely a lot to be desired when it comes to privacy on Linux. Unfortunately Linux was designed before many of the privacy and security best practices became established, which is why is it less secure than modern systems like Android (source). Trying to re-architect Linux at this point would be an insane undertaking. Machine-id is just one thing in a long list that would need to be changed. Nothing wrong with advocating for it, but I just wouldn't expect it to happen for at least 5 years.
Containers are a modern technology with isolation and security as a core goal from the start. And by now, containers are already deeply integrated into the Linux community, for example look at how the entire Fedora Atomic project (including Bluefin, Aurora, Bazzite) uses container-based infrastructure to build the OS images. So that's why I've been moving towards it as a solution for my privacy needs, and I recommend others look into it as well.
Edit: rewording some sentences
Systemd was designed long after a lot of these security practices and problems with tracking were well understood. There's very little excuse for it doing a lot of the things it does. Systemd is literally re-architecting how Linux was meant to work originally, and for the worse. I get the impression you're not actually familiar with the history of Linux or Unix philosophy in general.
Having to put everything into containers is really just a work around bad architecture that keeps being pushed in the Linux world. Containers are useful, and probably the only way to actually keep apps from having too much access to the system at this point, but I don't see why bad architecture should be accepted and then have to be worked around.
I've read enough mailing lists and issue trackers to know that they are far more complex than they look on the surface, so I definitely won't claim authority about them.
Take this one that I found recently: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1618257
It's a bug report about Firefox's favicon cache. They started looking into it, but found out that if they fix this bug, it creates fingerprinting risk, so they have to address that as well. And so the issue gets stuck in limbo for like 10 years, and is still open till today.
Regarding systemd, it had to be built on top of the existing architecture, and more importantly, had to appeal to the Linux community to be adopted, so it couldn't change too much. I assume they have their reasons for depending on machine-id. It might not even be a direct dependency. Maybe it allowed easier adoption by the big players.
I don't know, and honestly, I don't really care about digging into every single fingerprinting vector (of which there are probably tons more), when I can just use containers. And while using containers might feel like a hack or workaround, if we look at Flatpak, it seems like containers are becoming the framework for app isolation on Linux, similar to what already exists on Android. So it may very well become the official solution to privacy and security on Linux.
My point is that systemd did not have to be built at all. It's an abomination that goes directly against the original philosophy of Linux creating a monolithic monstrosity to replace individual and composable programs that used to be the way init works. Now, everything is tied to it and it's become like a cancer in a linux system that's inoperable. The whole system-id problem is just one example of why this is a terrible design.
Well I'm not here to argue about systemd in general, that's a far larger topic. All I'll say is that from my experience, systemd felt cleaner than the competitors at the time and created a lot of conventions and standards that are taken for granted today.
For example, to bring this back to the original topic, another commenter in this thread mentioned that systemd provides an API for generating randomized machine-ids that flatpak utilizes.
Though flatpak is gaining more dependency on systemd, and I don't think that coupling is necessary, so I've been keeping an eye out in that space.
Edit: researching a bit more on the topic, there's some interesting comments here about how systemd is not as monolithic as people think
My view is that systemd was a mistake and I disagree with it on a philosophical level. I see stuff like machine-id getting baked in as a direct extension of this philosophy.
Many software decisions are more about strategy than philosophy. Compromising on ideals and principles to gain adoption. As mentioned before, I would not be surprised if dependence on machine-id was simply strategy.
Systemd might be replaced in future. But currently it's used in all major distros. It's design and ideas will probably inspire whatever replaces it. If they had spent their time clinging to philosophy and ideals rather than making compromises, then they might have never left the ground.
I'm not sure what was supposed to be leaving ground in your mind to be honest, or whose strategy you're talking about. Linux used to be a community driven effort rather than some company trying to gain growth. Why is gaining adoption so important all of a sudden when Linux has been around for ages without mass adoption, and it's been doing just fine. Seems like part of the issue is actually commercialization because a lot of the decisions are driven by distros that are backed by companies who do want to make profit off the platform.
Well one reason why adoption matters is network effects. Increased Linux popularity, means that more developers will develop for Linux. At a broader level it means that the ideology and principles of the Linux community, like software freedom and privacy, can produce quality results and products for the masses. That brings more power for the Linux community, and more adoption of their principles.
On the flipside, if the base Linux experience is mediocre, then nobody will bother developing apps and extensions for it.
If you are completely happy with Linux the way it is now, then that adoption probably doesn't mean a lot. But I personally think there's a ton more that can be done in the Linux and privacy world
The whole context here is that Linux philosophy and principles are being gutted by companies trying to make a buck off it. In my view, benefits of wide adoption need to be balanced with actually retaining the principles which make Linux a good platform.
Again, Linux has been around a long time before commercial interests started fucking with it. And I don't think chasing adoption for the sake of it is healthy. I'd rather it grows at its own pace. It's already a big enough community to make it sustainable indefinitely, there's absolutely no rush to gain market share here.
I'm not sure if the principles have been gutted like you say. Fedora, for example, uses systemd, and is supported by the commercial RedHat. And yet it is well regarded in the Linux community, and has firmly stuck to open source and pro-privacy principles. They foster diversity too, like the Fedora Atomic and Universal Blue projects, which make it easy to fork distros and create new ones. Not to mention, Linus Torvalds uses Fedora.
One could say that Linux is already growing at its own pace. There are some that wish it would move slower, some that wish it would move faster. systemd wasn't forced on distros. in fact Ubuntu fought it for years, since it was created by their competitor after all. Yet Ubuntu still adopted it in the end, so it must have been worth it.
The way I see it, back in the day, Linux was too fragmented in some areas, and at the same time lacking isolation in others. Systemd standardized and addressed the fragmentation, while containers introduced isolation where needed. The lines are being re-drawn. But I don't think the principles of Linux were compromised that much.
I'm not sure who regards RedHat well actually, they've always been doing shitty things like trying to charge for Fedora hence why people ended up forking it as CentOS. They're a poster child for the problems with Linux getting commercialized. Saying Linus uses something is just appeal to authority by the way.
The problem, once again, is that a lot of the development is now driven by commercial companies like RedHat and Ubuntu that are in it to make money. So, in a way these things are actually pushed on the community because you either adopt them or it becomes increasingly difficult to run software on your distro.
Fragmentation in init was a real problem, but it could've been solved much better by just creating a common standard for configurations while keeping the original modular design. Systemd approach is very heavy handed, and introduces a whole bunch of new problems which didn't exist. The fundamental Unix principle is having small programs that do a single thing well and that can be composed together. Systemd goes directly against this principle.
After reading through this whole comment thread, reading this was the last straw. I've been planning my exodus for a while.
Soon, I shall say "I use Artix, btw".
amen and try sharing this view on c/linux or c/privacy. lol
Yeah, I have a hard time understanding the justification for systemd. The only real argument I've seen is that it standardizes the process, but that could've been done as a spec where you define a common config format, lifecycle, etc., and then keep the actual utilities decoupled from each other, but behaving in a uniform way.