Today I Learned

You (should) get my point though, regardless of if deaths or coconspirators match up 1:1, things do happen that are orchestrated by multiple people that you and I do not know about, to believe otherwise is arrogant.

And you should understand that context and scale is important. I never claimed that all conspiracy is impossible to keep secret for some time, just that the scale of the conspiracy and what the conspiracy is doing has a direct correlation on how easy it is to keep secret. Mkultra was easier to keep under wraps because people were personally benefitting from the distribution of drugs, and those taking the drugs for the most part were happy to do so.

amount deaths are irrelevant (and btw about 14 boxes of paperwork were destroyed, we'll never know what that contained..), point is that from 50-70 when the "program shut down" (...riiiiight) 20 yr, it was still a secret program and "not happening." 4 years later turns out the "crazies" like me suggesting a government experimental conspiracy to test acid and other mind control methods on some of our nation's most prominent assassins and murderers and creating the hippy movement by accident were right the whole time..

Deaths create the motive to investigate, to say they don't matter is just silly. It wasn't the "crazies" who uncovered mkultra, that was done by professional reporters.

It fits, they've said "nuh uh" for almost 80 years and lord knows how many people have been involved in the cover up, "uh huh" still means "uh huh" even if they're only admitting it now because of Epstein (which again let me remind you is yet ANOTHER conspiracy involving conspirators that has come to light after 20yr of operation..)

None of the stuff they said "nuh uh" too has been confirmed by any of the disclosure. All they've done is release files of sightings of suspicious objects they've catalogued. It's not like they've come out and said Roswell was real and we've been using alien tech this whole time. There hasn't been a single disclosure that's confirmed we're dealing with anything extraterrestrial.

As far as Epstein goes, there were public reports about his illicit activities going back as far as the early 00's. His operation is more of an indictment on how little the general public care about young women than it is some secretive government program.

And how long were they working on it before we found out? The fact you seem to think you know everything in real time baffles me, you really can't admit that maybe large organized intelligence rings may do things you don't know about?

Literally the same year...... Hezbollah switched from walkie talkies to pagers in 2024 and Israel found an opportunity to intercept them before they arrived.

And again.... I never claimed things were impossible to plan in secret or that the public knows exactly what's going on at all times. Just that after the event occured and bodies start pulling up people will start investigating what happened. At that point operations involving a lot of people are easy to investigate. I don't know where you're getting the notion I claimed we are omnipresent and omniscient.

That you know of.

As the evidence leads us to believe. All the examples you've given thus far I have rebuttals for. I can't disprove something something that you can't prove happened. All I can do is give context and examples that rebute your argument.

A few hundered thousand bucks and the assurance that you'll kill my family if I speak up even though I won't be believed because I don't have concrete proof oughta cover it.

Any examples of this being offered to anyone? Any examples of mysterious deaths of entire families connected to a conspiracy? Do you make the offer before you get involved? Do you kill the people who refuse to involve themselves before you tell them what they are doing? You don't think that would lead a paper trail?

Did you properly threaten their families? Makes it more likely..

No death bed confessions? No evidence of a thousand demolition experts converging on NYC before 9/11? No testimony of blue collar workers being approached for a secret job in NYC before 9/11? This is not a television show, and the cia or FBI aren't nearly as competent as what you are thinking. They aren't all mindless killing machines willing to take out innocent American workers without question for a job. How many sociopaths do you think work for the cia?

"the government could never keep a secret" is patently ridiculous to assume.

Yes, and I never claimed that. That's just a straw man argument you seem to be fixated on fighting despite the fact that all my rebuttals have been framed on how your examples differ from 9/11. My claim was that the level of secrecy required to pull of a conspiracy the scale of 9/11 would be impossible.

they operate in compartmentalized cells...

Yes, and a high number of compartmentalized cells become inefficient at scale. It's like playing phone tag, the more cells you have working the harder it is to communicate and allocate resources. The biggest trade off with covert large cell orginazations is that the larger the network is the less it can organize in a coherent manner.

Kennedy said "Er Uh, no."

And you don't think the idea of political blowback had anything to do with that?

Is that what it would take to make you finally realize you don't know everything about everything?

Ahh yes, the absence of evidence is actually evidence itself! Again if the government was willing and capable to commit to the actions you have described to keep secrets, then why do we know anything about all the examples of uncovered conspiracies you already listed?

Did threatening families not exist before the 2000's? Why aren't all of snowdens family members mysteriously gone?

now I hope that happens just so you personally can realize the world isn't as simple as you seem to believe.

Lol, you hope it's true that the government murdered thousands of US citizens just so you "win" an argument? You seem like a reasonable and well adjusted human being.......

I hope that you recover from your inforwars based brain injury.