[deleted]

So someone posted:

And Cowbee said:

Liberals didn’t do this, it was the working class organizing and banding together that forced their hand. Liberals opposed these measures until they were forced to implement them.

From the suffragettes, civil rights movement, abolitionists, Black Panther Party, trade unions, communists, socialists, and regular working people together, these measures were forced. Social Security was a reaction to revolutionary potential, fearing the working class would overthrow the capitalists like they did in Russia in creating the Soviet Union and implemented sweeping safety nets.

Liberals are not on the left, and trying to take credit for the measures they had to be forced into implementing is peak liberalism.

And I said:

Not really, dude. Civil rights absolutely, social security, kind of, the activists didn’t create the idea but they gave muscle to the labor movement to the point that FDR got elected in the first place and had the momentum so sure, clean air act and clean water act, you must be joking, those were just liberal government things. The things from the "clean air act" end of the spectrum are actually really good examples of why having a functioning government is a good thing even if it means “electoralism,” meaning it can’t all just be people in the streets fighting. You need both sides of the equation: The vigor and blood to push things forward, and then the paper and system to lock it in. Without either side of that, it doesn’t work.

More to the point, stop shitting on people who did good things. If you live in America, you benefit from all of the things on that list. Look for enemies elsewhere. This is the left’s favorite thing, to turn its guns exclusively on its own side, and it’s super good at it.

So Cowbee said:

FDR only implemented the New Deal because social strife was intense, and the soviet union was showing an alternative. Environmental protections were only passed because the working class struggled for them, especially indigenous peoples. Policy that benefits the working class does not get handed down from benign rulers, but is something forced out of their hands.

Liberals are not on the side of leftists. Historically, for these measures, liberals have often opposed them, such as the civil rights movement. Liberalism itself has consistently been wielded in the name of countless atrocities and social injustice since its inception.

So I said:

Policy that benefits the working class does not get handed down from benign rulers, but is something forced out of their hands.

Absolutely completely correct.

Historically, for these measures, liberals have often opposed them, such as the civil rights movement.

Also correct.

I still feel like someone throwing firebombs at FDR (along the lines of vandalizing AOC's office because she's "pro-genocide" if you ignore all the anti genocide she does), because he's a "liberal" and therefore an enemy and the labor movement were the ones that did all the progress, would be making an error. That is what I am saying.

So Cowbee said:

Not a single person here is advocating for adventurist terrorism, though. When leftists state that liberals are not our allies, the answer isn’t to kill them, but to bring the liberal working class into our ranks through organizing and educating. The liberals who side with capitalism, try to persuade the working class into accepting concessions, rather than revolutionary change and social liberation, who try to box us into the narrow frames of electoralism in a system set up by capitalists, are ideologically the enemy of the working class.

So I said:

Sure. I still feel like someone throwing criticism at FDR (along the lines of vandalizing AOC’s office because she’s “pro-genocide” if you ignore all the anti genocide she does), because he’s a “liberal” and therefore an enemy and the labor movement were the ones that did all the progress, would be making an error. That is what I am saying.

So Cowbee said:

FDR was also responsible for expanding the US Empire, putting millitary bases in Antigua, Jamaica, Guyana, and more on 99 year loans from the UK. AOC has caped for Israel and the DNC. These are not enemies because of a label, but because of their actions. In their natural state, without being forced by the working class, they will continue to serve the interests of the US Empire.

So I said:

AOC has caped for Israel and the DNC

Sure she has lol

That was the end of my involvement. Anyway, allegedly for that conversation, I was instance banned for 14 days. After all, everyone should feel welcome here!

I know whining about lemmy.ml doing unreasonable moderation is kind of carrying coals to Newcastle, but come the fuck on lol. I think the actual issue was a separate conversation I had with him in which case I was displaying some wrongthink with citations which is not allowed I guess. Who knows. Anyway, that's what happened and why they said it happened.