Some of the most effective and fervent leftist organizers I've ever met were former military members. Most of these guys were kids from underprivileged and undereducated communities when they joined the military and has never been introduced to concepts like class consciousness untill after the military used and abused them.

Pretty much every effective militant revolution in history were founded or led by a group of former military members. If we cannot accept that people can and will change their minds when exposed to the truth, then what is the point of leftist organizing in the first place?

Leftist claiming to be revolutionaries who then reject the idea that people can change is oxymoronic and counterrevolutionary. Leftists are converted not created, and we cannot afford to reject the willing, able, and capable. Do they have a debt to society? Yes, but they often know this better than anyone, and will work harder than most to pay it off.

[–] nefertum@hexbear.net 40 points 2 months ago (6 children)

I'm not American and I don't live in America. The leftist revolution where I live will involve going to war with America and Americans. I'm not against all military members, I am against American military members. I hate America and the American military for what they did to Iraq. I will never have solidarity with the people thatremovedd and pillaged the Iraqi side of my family. I hate all the people who were a part of it and I hope they all burn in hell forever. I don't care if they "change", I don't believe that any Americans living in the imperial core will ever cast away their labor aristocracy to become leftists. Fuck them forever.

[–] CommunistCuddlefish@hexbear.net 6 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

I live in America and I hope when my country wages war against yours, "we" lose. I really respect and appreciate your perspective of being entirely against the American military because I am too. I remember how the troops and their supporters treated me and my family because we looked like the people they'd been told were the enemy, and I don't even want to stop hating them for that. Nor can I want to stop hating them for what they did to Iraq and Afghanistan. The dead don't get another shot at life. The dead don't get to be happy. The traumatized will carry their wounds the rest of their lives. So why should their killers?

It is frankly refreshing and validating to see someone else harboring that fiery stance because it's so painfully rare here and I feel alone with it.

When I see local comrades -- usually white -- make carveouts for American soldiers, I feel like I trust them less and it's a struggle because I want to not have that trust take a hit. But, ask them if they'd apply that standard to Nazi soldiers, and they will not or cannot really engage.

I don't know how they can really care about the victims of fascism and excuse fascism's footsoldiers.

load more comments (5 replies)

[–] SuperNovaCouchGuy2@hexbear.net 29 points 2 months ago (12 children)

I remember someone mentioning once that most US military are from middle class/petit bourgeois backgrounds and this has been the case for a while.

Also if leftist organizations are being headed by former fascist soldiers then this is more of an indictment to those organizations than anything else tbh.

Furthermore its not really about people not being able to change and become less shit in general per se, its just that those guys are as bad on the same level as IDF who genocide Palestinians and/or nazis who genocided the slavs. Like especially for the platner piece of shit. You can't just proudly wear being a fascist accessory to genocide on your chest, literally in this case.

[–] SickSemper@hexbear.net 15 points 2 months ago (2 children)

I specifically remember a Maoist standard English article called “the myth of the soldiertariet” that investigated the data, but I can’t find it now

[–] LENINSGHOSTFACEKILLA@hexbear.net 7 points 2 months ago (4 children)

let me know if you find it, that sounds rad

[–] SickSemper@hexbear.net 6 points 2 months ago

Check @nondiagetic’s reply! They found it

load more comments (2 replies)

load more comments (11 replies)

[–] hello_hello@hexbear.net 11 points 2 months ago

Why do you think saying this "people can change" speech under a post about a USAmerican white supremacist Nazi makes your point more credible.

I don't disagree with you on a fundamental level, but is this something you really want to have said here?

load more comments (109 replies)