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Ok, i took your word until now, now i want proof.
It is a fact that Russia has been attacking and influencing the politics of it's neighbors for the last decades, and dark money channels to far right parties in many EU countries have been exposed; It's hard to believe that they didn't eye the possibility of grabbing land of european countries before they got bogged down in Ukraine.
For this i demand Sources. You seem to have them, so it shouldn't be an issue to provide?
Also, I started out with the superior sourcing of battlefield reports, and then delivered evidence to support that there are youtubers with millions of subscribers out there that are critical of what is happening in ukraine, even if they still want them to win. I covered both the political arena and the battlefield itself.
Every single country in the world has been doing this since the invention of politics. the US has literally military bases in most countries, but you don't seem as worried about them despite they are the one who waged infinite wars for the past 70 years.
It's easier to believe when you look at the history of Russia, their claims (believable or not, their claims is their justifications toward their own people, so they have to stick to those). the fact that attacking an alliance of 30 countries is insane and unsellable to the Russians, that a War with europe will cut completely disrupt commerce and that will be devastating for the Russian economy itself, resulting in making Putin weaker and he definitely doesn't want that. Some more: Russia has spent billions in resources to build economical ties with Europe, like the north stream. It's unplausible that at the same time they plotted to attack the very alliance they spent decades building encomic ties with.
Your skeptic tone seems to give for assumed that my sources are unreliable. Fair enough, i just wish you would apply the same skepticism also to the news you like. Anyway:
While there is no doubt that some Russian drones are jammed and fall on NATO or EU countries. There is no proof, only political speculation, about these drones being sent on purpose by Russia to attack. What we know for sure is that, so far, the drones that created real damages were all Ukrainian. You are free to justify this, but changing the facts because more convenient that way is propaganda.
There is a difference between foreign politics and using Cambridge Analytica style tactics on the population of a neighboring country. If you are so aware about propaganda, you should also see the difference in scale here. I live in one of those countries, and family members of mine have been fucking brainwashed by this style of propaganda to the point where they support far-right parties which want Ukraine to just roll over and die.
I am no friend of the USA. But nothing the USA does makes anything Russia is doing any better - An Eye for an Eye is fucking stupid, regardless of context - it only serves to prolong conflicts. Since NATO is allied with the USA, joint military operations on EU soil are a matter of fact - at least until Trump finally withdraws from NATO, which is something i can't wait to see.
They are already saying they are fighting NATO! They proclaimed that pretty early into their SVO. They are also telling their population they are fighting a "shadow cabal", something like the crap the nazis said about the jews. I ask you: If a regime stoops so low to use the same crap that the nazis did to manufacture consent, is it different from the nazis?
The economic ties were used to make us addicted to russian oil and gas; it nearly worked. The pricing increases for energy and heating were a major factor for the increasingly high polling of far-right groups who promised to get us cheaper carbohydrates. I say that the economic ties that Russia prepared (UNDER PUTINS WATCH) were nothing else than an attempt to make sure Europe stays silent when Russia uses their military to expand once again.
Regarding your citations of drone strikes:
Electronic warfare can make drones go off course. Thats nothing new, and Russia even jams areas where they shouldn't be doing it; Russia is trying to fuck with GPS all over Europe, and Kaliningrad is a big fucking ECM station. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tz23G_UXCGA
Regarding the Missile Strike: Would that AMRAAM have been fired if Russia hadn't sent 20 Drones into Polish airspace via Belarus? 1,2,3 drones can be a mistake or caused by jamming, 20 are a planned operation.
Your sources have been read, and were found to be lacking to support your standpoint. You may try again, but this time try to be less pro-russia in your arguments, because there isn't any difference between someone who is pro-russia and a fucking nazi to me, and i do not converse with nazis, i punch them.
You are using one of the biggest AMERICAN scandal to say that Russia is doing the same. Do you see the issue here?
Yes, that's exactly my point. the drones that we are being told are just a signal of an impending military attack from Russia, most of the times are just jammed Ukrainians drones
Again you are just parroting a viewpoint that it's just an opinion and pure speculation. No fact proves that it was a deliberate attack.
NATO countries are providing to Ukraine weapons, ammunitions, intelligence, specialised troops (for the pointing system of some air defence systems), fundings, GPS and target data. Doesn't seem so crazy for me that they are saying they are fightning NATO. Equipare that to the possibility of Russia actively attacking a NATO country is a choice based on your feelings, not really a fact.
So they wanted to make addicted to their gas and oil so they could declare war to us later and stop that commerce entirely? i don't see the logic
So Russia has built strong economic ties with the EU so that when Russia would attack the EU (so basically NATO), the EU will stay silent and let them do? This is literally nonsense.
I engaged in this conversation because i assumed an open mindset and an academic approach towards the issue. You ask for sources but the only one you provide is a youtube video and based on the flimsiness of your claims, that's probably the maximum extent at which you "study" conflicts. Then you end the speech with a pathetic tirade over nazis to show how though you are and obviously hinting at the fact that, at one point you had to say it, i'm pro-russia in your mind. I really try to have a discussion that doesn't end in a toddler-level conversation or people just choosing a faction like if it was a footbal team, but if this is the level of the conversation i don't see benefits in continuing it.
Ok mate, were done here. You are a fucking tankie in disguise who was sealioning from the beginning, and i won't engage with that crap anymore. Crawl back to your .ml friends and boast about how you wasted everyones time here.
Look at this coward.
This comment shows your real colours and how actually shallow you are. You don't have anything to back up your claims, you say at the same time that the drones are russian jammed and that they are a deliberate attack to test defenses. You don't realise that a lot of people having a feeling doesn't transform that feeling on a fact. Especially if that feeling is carefully crafted by a gigantic media machine. Easier for you to call me Tankie, Russia-friendly, even nazi even if the only thing to back this up is that i disagree with your "analysis". You are just the result of a sick society where people are tought that ther opinion always matters even when based on other people's opinion only and when confronted can only shut the door and close themselves in their own bubble. That's ok, i hope you people will not drag us all to doom thanks to your armchair analysis based on a youtube video.
Hey frustrated friend, I've been commenting in this thread in your support, trying to give you a more experienced perspective on this community. But as it stands, my instance lemmy.ml has been defederated from your instance infosec.pub, so you're not able to see any posts or comments from that instance (although it's the main dev instance).
Here's a link to your comment thread via the lemmy.world instance where you can see all comments.
Early on I tried to warn you, that you will not get any kind of open or constructive discussion in this community and as it turned out, looking at the ending of your conversation with Wildmimic (which himself has blocked the lemmy.ml instance, so he couldn't see any of my commentary either), and the tangential discussions I provoked, I think sadly I've been proven right.
In my comments I also provided you with some ideas on where to get good information about the geopolitics of this war, explicitly non-communist, as the political thought of Marxism is not needed to deconstruct the dynamics (although, it's the best approach over all, but that's just my experience).
Ya, anyway, just wanted to let you know. Doesn't matter if you care or not, but now you got the full picture of the conversation. Have a nice day and don't let you get dragged down by these people, you've done nothing wrong.
Hey thanks for reaching out. I had a personal lemmy instance few years ago, but then life changed and i abandoned it. This thing of communities defederating each others for ridiculus reasons it's really embarassing and annoying, i think i'll go back to make my own instance because being able to see only part of the conversation is absurd.
I was aware of this :) my point was not to try to convince the person i'm interact with, but to show the people that are reading that there is a good and a bad way to study and analyze conflicts. Hopefully some reader got something out of it. I expect and don't mind the downvotes.
Thanks for the links and for the suggestions, they are appreciated. I'll take a look later today. Have a great day and thanks for caring
Sorry to say, but: told you so.
Soviet Union, Socialism, and Western Imperialism from the great and late scholar and lecturer Michael Parenti (not a Tankie).
e: so infosec.pub is defederated, lol, ridiculous.
For @LeoDalPozzo@infosec.pub, as Wildmimic doesn’t even see me, so blind he is.
As I said, even if you go out of your way and now start to provide sources, after this guy spewed all the indoctrinated bullshit about this war without providing any themself, it‘s more likely you will get more excuses, more downvotes and more bad faith answers.
There are analysts, not necessarily communist, that still try to understand the dynamics of international geopolitics, that will say, that this is a proxy war fought between NATO and Russia (and China), you‘ll need to zoom out and leave the pure militarist perspective.
Btw, one of the triggers is actually calling it a proxy war, but since this guy blocked the whole instance my account is on, he‘ll be spared.
Dunno, there‘s John Mearsheimer, Jeffrey Sachs, German Foreign Policy, Neutrality studies, Breakthrough News, maybe Novara News. Either way, you’ll have a hard time finding reliably consistent analysis on mainstream media.
But IMO, you will get a better understanding of these conflicts and what‘s up with the people around here, if you open up towards Historical Materialism, which is the Marxist scientific approach to economy and class analysis.