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Resources to dispel Russia and China imperialism myths? (hexbear.net)

submitted 3 months ago by starkillerfish@hexbear.net to c/asklemmygrad@lemmygrad.ml

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cross-posted from: https://hexbear.net/post/6792069

I've been running into this conversation quite a few times recently with fellow organizers: that China and Russia are imperialist powers because they are expansionist. While I understand in my brain why this is not the case, it is difficult for me to argue the case. I wonder if there are any useful (and short) analyses / frameworks I can use in a conversation, because I start losing people when I get too into depth in theory.

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[–] darkernations@lemmygrad.ml 12 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (2 children)

One way is through immanent critique:

https://redsails.org/on-dialectics/

It may be worthwhile in some cases to attack the underlying subtext rather than debating point-by-point rebuttals. For example, starting with how China has the largest democracy in the world or how they have lifted 800 million people out of poverty - you will be challenging their understanding of democracy and what a fuller participation of democracy means while tackling Western chauvinism (consider also looking at the sources as well):

https://redsails.org/losurdo-on-china/

https://redsails.org/the-xinjiang-atrocity-propaganda-blitz/

https://redsails.org/another-view-of-tiananmen/

https://redsails.org/friendly-feudalism/

https://redsails.org/economic-war-on-asia/

https://thetricontinental.org/studies-1-socialist-construction/

May be consider how learning from China can help them better organise themselves:

What are the strategic consequences of decisively rejecting the tripartite social theory advanced by Orwell, and adopting Marx’s all-encompassing one instead? The basic call to action looks something like this:

Stop accusing the masses of being “brainwashed.” Stop treating them as cattle, stop attempting to rouse them into action by scolding them with exposure to “unpleasant truths.”

Accept instead that they have been avoiding those truths for a reason. You were able to break through the propaganda barrier, and so could they if they really wanted to. Many of these people see you as the fool, and in many cases not without reason.

Understanding people as intelligent beings, craft a political strategy that convincingly makes the case for why they and their lot are very likely to benefit from joining your political project. Not in some utopian infinite timescale, but soon.

If you cannot make this case, then forget about convincing the person in question. Focus instead on finding other people to whom such a case can be made. This will lead you directly to class analysis.

https://redsails.org/masses-elites-and-rebels/

If you can "crack" the disinformation on China then Russia will be a much easier sell.

Edited to add, youtube links on why China is not imperialist:

Carlos Martinez: https://youtube.com/watch?v=vgqSWeGHX2U

Vijay Prashad: https://youtube.com/watch?v=FXq1l2QCEc0

[–] starkillerfish@hexbear.net 6 points 3 months ago (1 children)

vijay's video is just what i needed! thank you for the all the other links too

[–] darkernations@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Welcome; (1) that snippet is part of a longer video if you are intetested in the fuller context (2) Prashad helps run the Tricontinental Institute for Social Research for various articles for deeper dives (3) if you are looking for various short clips to get your head around a topic to begin with it may be worthwhile searching his name + said topic on youtube /equivalent (eg is China capitalist, imperialism, climate change, Russia etc). However, I would caution that these are just starting points and you should consider more widespread reading when you get the chance. There is no single source but if one had to choose I would point to prolewiki and redsails.org (ok that's two).

[–] starkillerfish@hexbear.net 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

i know vijay and tricontinental quite well! my issue right now is more of a "how do i explain this to someone else" rather than how to dive deeper (i am afraid i am too deep), so short clips with good examples of rhetoric are very helpful.

[–] darkernations@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 3 months ago (1 children)

If that's the case here's another one from Prashad:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=tHauK63YUoI

[–] TankieReplyBot@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 3 months ago

I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:

[–] TankieReplyBot@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

I found YouTube links in your comment. Here are links to the same videos on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:

Link 1:

Link 2: