this post was submitted on 16 Dec 2025
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Why do Marx and Lenin disregard the lumpenproletariat? (hexbear.net)
submitted 2 months ago by CupcakeOfSpice@hexbear.net to c/askchapo@hexbear.net
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I have not read every document the two wrote regarding the subject, so I may be misunderstanding; but the ProleWiki makes it sound like Marx and Lenin--and therefore Marxist-Leninists would--disregard the revolutionary potential of the lumpenproletariat. It seems like sex workers and homeless folks and disabled people are all spat on by the bourgeoisie and would be glad to help take them down? I'm disabled and mostly unable to work (I do work a little, but not even enough to be part-time) and I consider myself an ML.

The wiki describes the lumpen as exploitable by reactionary and counter-revolutionary forces, but we've seen in the West that the proletariat as a whole is susceptible to these forces. See Zohran run one of the most radical campaigns we've seen in a while and then put on Zionist officials and advocate for changing the system from the inside. The working class is content to sit down and wait for someone else to make change for them. Most disabled people I know, on the other hand, are ready to tear the system down with their own hands. So are we supposed to just gloss over a group of people who've been pressure cooking this whole time? If so, why?

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[–] Awoo@hexbear.net 8 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

I think it's at least partially because you can't openly support criminal elements of society without alienating yourself from workers that want to see those elements of society eliminated (not the people themselves, the elements).

So you choose. Do you want to be the vanguard of the lumpenproletariat or the proletariat? If you can not be both then you must pick one.

Whether or not you can be both is probably determined by the level of consciousness and care for these people that exists within the proletariat, this will differ in various national conditions. The problem I notice is that the closer to revolutionary conditions a country tends to be, the less the proletariat tend to be sympathetic to the lumpenproletariat, usually because they are negatively affected by the lumpenproletariat's actions quite regularly. So while you might be able to get a very large number of society in somewhere like Norway to be supportive of the lumpen, that seems to also coincide with the fact the country is very far away from revolutionary conditions.