this post was submitted on 19 Dec 2025
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I was recently reminded how much I fucking hate Plato's Republic (media.piefed.social)
submitted 1 week ago by PugJesus@piefed.social to c/historymemes@piefed.social
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[–] bobo@lemmy.ml 1 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

Sure, and USA is a land of freedom and chances, where people are equal and nobody is being persecuted for their religion or the colour of their skin, and where money trickles down to water all of the working class.

Get real dude.

Afaik personal property is illegal in theory, but you can buy a car and have your family inherit it. The ruling class in theory doesn't own any private property, yet the Kim family owns a private island, yachts, luxury cars, and enough money to pay NBA players for a sleepover.

Also, you're forgetting a few key steps in making the Plato's polis like:

  • killing/exiling all adults before starting with the reforms
  • removing the concept of family, and instead having all children grow communally
  • a magical system to correctly grade newborns and assign them to the correct caste

Edit:

But again, you're comparing the myth of an actual society and it's actual state, with a hypothetical society that wasn't ever supposed to have an actual state. Plato purposefully Deus exes problems away so you can focus on what the polis represents - a metaphor for a righteous person.

[–] PugJesus@piefed.social 1 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

Sure, and USA is a land of freedom and chances, where people are equal and nobody is being persecuted for their religion or the colour of their skin, and where money trickles down to water all of the working class.

Get real dude.

"a state run by a ruling caste that cannot own property and has been brainwashed since childhood to put the needs of the community over their own." is not a positive or ideal description of NK, and I'm not entirely sure why you think a mythological interpretation of the USA is a response.

Afaik personal property is illegal in theory, but you can buy a car and have your family inherit it. The ruling class in theory doesn’t own any private property, yet the Kim family owns a private island, yachts, luxury cars, and enough money to pay NBA players for a sleepover.

Wow. Almost sounds like the theory is a bit flawed.

Also, you’re forgetting a few key steps in making the Plato’s polis like:

killing/exiling all adults before starting with the reforms

Oh boy, do I have some exciting news for you about the development of the DPRK

removing the concept of family, and instead having all children grow communally

Nominally true, but the system of collective education and totalitarian interest in family is close.

a magical system to correctly grade newborns and assign them to the correct caste

... individuals are assigned to their caste at birth according to their parentage, reassignments to another caste are done at adolescence or adulthood according to the Republic, and not by a magical system, but explicitly by the Guardians themselves.

But again, you’re comparing the myth of an actual society and it’s actual state, with a hypothetical society that wasn’t ever supposed to have an actual state. Plato purposefully Deus exes problems away so you can focus on what the polis represents - a metaphor for a righteous person.

As I said before, the argument fails on both metaphysical and political grounds - and you are here overwhelmingly supporting the political arguments of the Republic, so don't try to fucking cop-out with "It's all abstract philosophy, actually" now. Even if it is (and there is debate), you're sitting pretty here defending the literal and oligarchic arguments presented. The metaphorical (or not) nature of the work is thus irrelevant to the discussion thus far.