undersells the advantage of solar over corn ethanol land use by a lot. At least 2x. Excluding high energy/equipment cost of fermenting ethanol, overstating mileage, and understating EV mileage. The point of ethanol is purely to pay farmers for useless work, but they can make far more with less work from solar. Corn farmers in US have lost money for 4 consecutive years. Excluding land costs, their costs is $650/acre/year, excluding their time/labour. Cashflow per acre $97 @ $4/bushel. At 2.5 hours/day for $30/hour, profit before rent-equivalent drops to $22/acre

In Nebraska, solar costs $1/watt to install (before recent permitting BS). China costs $0.50/w (no tariffs, cheaper construction services/equipment). An acre in Nebraska can hold 400kw of solar, and produce 630k kwh/year (edit: correction). It breaks even at 5c/kwh with 5% financing of whole installation (with system paid off in 25 years, even though it keeps producing) including $4000 O&M costs (high, because its washing dust and leaves 1-2 times per week). Every 1c/kwh revenue higher is $6300/acre profit,

Since ethanol is just a gift to farmers/rural land owners. Giving them 2%/financing rate as the gift and 4c/kwh in revenue is the same profit per acre, and at 5c/kwh, massively higher ($6300) profit. For US car drivers, instead of paying $0.12/mile (a 25mpg gasoline car will use 5.4 gallons ethanol/100 miles at $2.20/gallon). 18c/kwh charging for EV means $0.05/mile. Massive cost reduction already, but tariffs and other BS removal can provide significantly more value for farmers and drivers.

[–] Spaceballstheusername@lemmy.world 3 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

I think there's something wrong with your math did you mean 630MWh/yr?

[–] humanspiral@lemmy.ca 2 points 52 minutes ago

ty. corrected. original said 630kwh/year

[–] stabby_cicada@slrpnk.net 7 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

God, fuck ethanol. Last I checked it literally took 1.5 gallons of oil/gas to produce 1 gallon of ethanol. It turns more fuel into less fuel and pisses away soil fertility doing it.

I read an article some time ago arguing the purpose of ethanol (and ag subsidies in general) is, consciously or unconsciously, manifest destiny - we have to have a "use" for all the land we stole, we have to do something with it even if that something is a complete waste, because otherwise, people might start asking why we don't give it back. Seems more likely to me all the time.

[–] humanspiral@lemmy.ca 1 points 13 minutes ago* (last edited 8 minutes ago)

It's the power of a voting class. Origins are geopolitics of 70s oil crisis. Then vote buying of rural areas. Most of the legislative giveaways were titled "clean air something". There is a food security argument for grains (livestock is a food battery, and ethanol is surplus monetization)

There is a high oil-related cost portion of corn farming. Close to $300 of the $650/acre is fertilizer ($225), tractor fuel, pesticides. The last 4 years of corn farming losses is also during low NG price. The minimal profit before rent-equivalence can go negative at higher NG price, because ethanol is only blended into gasoline when gasoline is expensive, and then corn only bought for cheap when it is not. The US always has a high oil price policy, and geopolitical insecurity to achieve it. Weapons-oil industry is deep state establishment pushing for war and higher oil prices, and more corn helps, and politicians are rewarded with larger bribery war chests.

Energy insecurity for Americans comes from relying on geopolitical manipulated energy subscription to live/operate. Farmers need export markets, which makes it good for them for US to not be hated by all of their markets. US oligarchy is also invested in high electricity prices/profits for incumbents. Datacenter bubble is ideal oligarchism alliance with tech.

The point of my post is that farming/rural areas can be weaned from the oil oligarchy voting block. Much cleaner air argument. Genuine energy security that comes from 0 reliance on future geopolitics/supply chains. Better corn prices if some corn farmers switch to solar. Lower oil prices if less of it is wasted on farming and cars. Lower electricity prices and abundance to fund whatever skynet priority to better kill us all, but without us going broke first.

[–] humanspiral@lemmy.ca 2 points 10 hours ago

Also if making a fuel (that is also key input for local fertilizer production for neighbour farmers) is important, H2 electrolysis at 5c/kwh input makes $3.50/kg H2. equivalent to above 17.5c/kwh EV charging, excluding the battery charger losses. It is 10x cheaper to move by pipe than it is to move electricity by wire, while also doubling as storage, and even better home energy applications by using waste heat for free hot water. H2 has same 2.4x advantage over ethanol cost, but you can produce an unlimited amount to sell to places that need more energy seasonally, or to blast stuff into space.