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As far as I can tell, Piefed exists because some people didn't like that the lemmy devs are communists.
I haven't looked into piefed, I'm exclusively going off what pro-piefed/anti-lemmy users have said.
That's not right. If anything, the problem would be that they support aggressive authoritarian regimes or that they're more anti-west than communist.
You confuse not supporting America's hostile actions against foreign countries with supporting the actions by those governments.
The alternative stance, supporting hostile action against, China, Cuba, Iran, Russia, Venezuela, etc because they're "authoritarian" is not materially different from the most blood thirsty ghoul who supports hostility because they believe they are inferior people whose labor and resources should be subjugated by the west.
Presumably you're a liberal who understands Iraq and Libya are not a better places today because we "liberated" them from their authoritarian regime, and maybe you see through zionists who argue in bad faith that we can't support Palestine because the struggle for LGBT+ rights hasn't advanced as much, but maybe you've noticed a pattern that 1. being subjected to western media and education, you get a wildly distorted perspective of places America intends hostile action, and 2. Supporting hostile action against "the regime" from the west just means hostile action against those people. An Iranian might protest and organize to advance their struggle, the US starving and/or bombing them does not help them.
Are you saying the Lemmy devs don't openly support aggressive, authoritarian regimes, like Russia?
other than the main one , are the other ones "far left"
You could just peruse their history.
All aggressive authoritarian regimes are bad and we should support none of them. The only reasonable side is against all of them.
You can't stay still on a moving train. Your opposition to the west's enemies, from within the west, is literally just supporting imperialism.
Still waiting on that answer...
Not doing this, go justify imperialism somewhere else.
Just so we're clear, you're outright lying.
I can show you Desellines explicitly supporting Russia against Ukraine.
So the real question is why are you lying?
Yes, opposing the US puppet, or more likely, opposing the US prolonging the war and human syffering, because like every other case of the last 75, the US is the greater evil.
The real question is why I bother responding to this bad faith horseshit.
Why are you just inventing versions of what Dessalines said?
Tankies gonna tankie, I guess.
I left lemmy because of the nutomic, yogthos, and dessalines. horrible people who have too much influence/control on all things lemmy and will ban/silence you for anything. check out !meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works
They're not commies, they're tankies.
Tankies are far removed from communism, they don't care for communist ideals or communist values, they only care for authoritarianism.
Ok, guess I'll go tell everyone part of an Actually Existing Socialist project to give up and shut it all down because some guy on the internet told me they're actually authoritarian.
Open source doesn't equal socialist lol
Otherwise, you'd have to argue that OpenAI is part-socialist since they have open source releases.
Actual Existing Socialism refers to countries that are working towards communism; socialist projects. Today that's China, Cuba, Vietnam, Laos, DPRK, some may argue Venezuela, Bolivia, and others.
Ah, okay.
Now, I'm curious. What is socialism to you?
When the working class holds state power, a transitionary period as they build the conditions for communism.
If that's the case, then why do workers have more rights and power in Western nations than those in Russia and China and in these other "Actual Existing Socialist" countries?
Why do you think most products are made in China? Because it's cheap, including the labour.
I also figured that one of socialism's core values is the eradication of private ownership, such as private property, which China still has.
Conditions for the workers in China have massively improved over the last 75 years. They continue to improve, as opposed to say, India which continues to export food while farmers hunger.
Due to central planning covering the major industries, everything is cheap in China, when you can get a good meal for 30 cents-2USD, and rent is 300USD, 1500USD/mo goes pretty far.
Cuba, despite 70 years of siege and US-backed terrorism, manages a higher HDI than every Caribbean nation, and a higher life expectancy for her people than America.
China doesn't have the luxury of stripping the global south for labor and resources. There's a reason all those countries remain eternally "developing" while China actually manages to improve conditions.
Russia hasn't been socialist for 35 years.
Private property has been a useful tool to develop the means of production. The capitalist class however, remains subordinated to the interests of the working class, as such we occasionally see one take a trip to a farm upstate when they step outside their lane. By 2050, Xi said it will no longer be necessary, so we should expect further reductions in the capitalists independence.
That's nice that China is improving, but if you're arguing on a purely worker basis, then Western, especially European and Commonwealth nations, have China beat, and by your definition, are more socialist.
This is true, but so too are their standards of living. I am curious though as to their minimum wage and how that compares to other nations.
So it's state capitalist then? And you take the word of the rich when they colour themselves as the government? Even when they're a foreign nation? So bizarre to me to be arguing for a nation you're not a part of.
If you agree that Western nations have better worker rights and more freedom than workers in China, then wouldn't it make more sense to support socialism in the West instead of a state capitalist foreign nation? And I want to specify, by the West, I mean democratic and liberal nations, such as those in the Commonwealth or Europe.
Workers having more crumbs while still being subservient to capital doesn't make them more socialist.
It uses markets to solve specific problems.
There are rich whom are party members, and are even less independent than rich people who have no connection to the government. We can infer they are not in control from the government's actions, from not propping up property prices to reeducating or even executing capitalists who commit social murder.
I'm not a nationalist, this isn't team sports.
Of course I support most any anti-capitalist party. But I've pretty much given up hope for the west.
But China is state capitalist, dude, it's not socialist. Hell, even in your argument for not propping up property prices, China still has extensive private property. That's contradictive of socialism!
So what exactly is your stance? Since China doesn't meet your definition of socialist. Are you advocating for state capitalism instead?
Like you've got some wires crossed somewhere here. I think you're conflating socialism and capitalism with imperialism.
My definition for socialism is that the working class holds power, as opposed to capital. China, Cuba, Vietnam, all meet that criteria. They use markets, but that doesn't make them state capitalist as capital doesn't dictate policy as in capitalist states.
Is your argument that a state is only socialist if they abolish private property on day 1?
My argument is that if you're saying that what defines socialism is the working class holding power, then Western nations, such as European or Commonwealth nations, are advancing your definition of socialism more than China.
So you should be advocating for Europe and Commonwealth nations over China if advancing socialism is your priority.
Consider this: China has one overarching union, the ACFTU, which is controlled by the state, which is the Chinese government. Independent unions, separate from the government, are considered to be illegal in China. Workers cannot unionise without explicit permission from the Government, and can only do so through the ACFTU.
Compare that to Western Nations, where worker unions are legal and largely separate from the government.
Out of these two, which more aligns with your definition of socialism being the working class holding power?
When the workers control the government, unions are redundant at best and reactionary bastions that will impede progress at worst, which we saw them stike at the behest if the CIA in Allande's Chile and Sankara's Burkina Faso.
I support unions in europe, I don't support their enemy, the capitalists and their governments.
Workers have better conditions in europe, due to colonial history and crumbs afforded by the threat of socialism, but the state isn't run by and for the working class as in AES countries.
If workers control the state, why must workers be prevented from organising independently?
Because those independent organizations can have interests opposed to the rest of society. Outside forces, historically the CIA, then amplify the influence of members who support such actions via money, media presence, and "international" support.
If independent unions are a threat, then the state doesn't fully represent workers.
The interests of different groups of workers can be diametrically opposed, or literally opposed to the interests of every other group.
But there's no opposition here, there isn't allowed to be.
That's why independent unions are important, so they can represent the diverse interests of workers.
They are represented, in government. We're going in circles here.
It is a cyclical argument we're having, yes.
That's why it's important to have some introspection. What pathway exists for workers to collectively oppose a state decision that harms them?
Like, look at these examples of China and the ACFTU oppressing and dissolving independent unions, arresting striking workers and arresting labour rights activists.
Workers in the JASIC factory formed a union with the assistance of left-wing students and Maoist, feminist and socialist activists. The Chinese government responded with mass arrests, raids and censorship.
Coal Miners protested against the Longmei Group, a state-owned enterprise (meaning the Chinese government owns it), for not paying wages. The organisers were arrested in their homes, and wanted photos were released of the striking miners.
Members of the Guangdong Panyu Migrant Worker Centre, which is an organisation that advocates for labour rights for workers, both migrant and domestic, were all arrested and had their houses raided.
Same with a union, talk to your representative. Failing that, complain about your rep to the guys above them.
But that relies entirely on the authority deciding to act against itself. You're turning a workers' union into a bureaucratic, administrative process. You're removing the workers' collective bargaining power and independence and turning it into an administrative grievance channel, that's consultative, not a sharing of power.
If what you describe is actually the pathway, there wouldn't be the need for these strikes and arrests.
But then they could have used Mbin, which is older than Piefed?
Iirc wasn't it because python is easier for beginners to learn than rust and php, so it's easier to get more contributors and thus deliver features faster?
Piefed is way nicer to use than mbin, feature rich.
I've used all three mentioned. While I don't like the lead Lemmy dev, I actually just like Piefed more it's not just out of principal.
Piefed's UI blows ass is the main problem I have.
Isn’t the UI very similar or am I missing something? I didn’t see any major differences when initially comparing them except PieFed having some more features like reactions and cross post comment loading (which I don’t think is a thing in Lemmy?). I have mostly used PieFed since then though.
I, personally, think it's very different. You may like it, and that's totally cool. But like you said, I have used mostly Lemmy and I'm probably being pedantic.
Does piefed even have working apps yet?
I think there is one, maybe. Blorp?
Blorp dev here. Linking the GitHub page if you wanna see all the ways you can download Blorp https://github.com/Blorp-Labs/blorp
Voyager can feed on pie.