This and veganism feel like the same circle I don't know how to square when it comes to mass politics. Masking and not consuming animal products are the right things to do, there aren't really any good arguments against them, but I have no idea how we are supposed to make them fit with a mass political movement. Maybe I'm too pessimistic but I really don't think there is a world (at least not within my lifetime) where the majority of people would be willing to give up animal products or to always wear a mask in public for going on half a decade. These are the right things to do, but they are very real and substantial sacrifices that for most people don't have any immediate or tangible benefits. I suspect people will compare this to false consciousness, point out that the number of people who currently support capitalism is similarly huge, but I don't think it's the same. If you are a worker supporting capitalism, you are against your own material interests in a very concrete and tangible way, and this becomes increasingly obvious as the contradictions heighten. Unless someone is a capitalist themselves, if they have the right analysis, socialism is worth fighting for, even if they only care about themselves. I think this is part of what is so powerful about socialist politics. I think it's what makes it potent as a mass movement. Again, maybe I'm too pessimistic, but I feel like a mass movement can't be built on compassion alone, at least not in the west. There has to be a personal stake that the majority have in the fight, and I feel like for both COVID consciousness and animal rights that just isn't there. It's also something I think about as a trans person, given that the people who are actually materially affected by trans issues is such a small group. If anyone has any thoughts on how to overcome this please let me know. It's something I think about a lot and am really stumped by.

[–] ComradeRat@hexbear.net 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I have similar thoughts wrt disability

I dont have any thoughts on how to overcome it, but I think part of the difficulty of convincing people of either is that if they accept you're right, then they have to accept that theyve (and their friends, family, etc) been not just wrong, but actively participating in doing harm.for the last however many years.

I do have one tiny speck of hope of union between labour and animal liberation: from what my comrades in the farmers union have said, most of the workers in slaughterhouses hate their jobs and have nightmares, ptsd, etc from it. If workers controlled their workplaces and directed society, i think we'd see a vast reduction in animal murder just because of this harm it does to them, even setting aside all the moral, ecological and theoretical arguments.

Or in other words, imo the industrial murder of animals is against the interests of the individual agricultural workers involved; and the production of meat for human consumption is against the interests of society as a whole (if only because of the resources involved).

[–] mononoke 3 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Personally, I am...not hopeful for people overcoming ableism on the whole. There is nothing in my nearly two decades of activism that tells me they will, and I don't expect this to improve in my lifetime. I would be blown away. Everywhere in the world stigmatizes disability, despite it being one of the only things guaranteed to come to everyone as they age, along with death. It is a fact of life no matter how healthy one is while they live. There is still a very unhealthy relationship with death in many places in the world, especially in western culture, and so it is with disability. Regardless I feel like I have no choice but to keep trying to move the needle.