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George Carlin said it best. We want dumb happy obedient workers. Smart enough to runthe machines, but not smart enough to realize how badly they're getting fucked by the system. So don't count on the schools to do much more than basic math, and basic skills. Because what helps the elite class screws over the working class. It's best to start screwing them in kindergarten. Teach them the pledge of allegence, so they feel endebted to our system, and keep them there for their entire lives.
Paraphrasing here, but that's the jist of a routine he had in the 90s. The important thing to note is that Carlin was NOT a time traveler. He didn't predict the future. It's just that we as a society have had the same problems for 100 years, and we never fixed our shit.
Maybe because 98.1% keep voting for either evil or the lesser evil; but almost none of them vote for the good like Nader?
"Everybody complains about politicians. Everybody says they suck. Well, where do people think these politicians come from? They don’t fall out of the sky. They don’t pass through a membrane from another reality. They come from American parents and American families, American homes, American schools, American churches, American businesses, and American universities - and they are elected by American citizens. This is the best we can do folks. This is what we have to offer. It’s what our system produces: Garbage in, garbage out. If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, […] you’re going to get selfish, ignorant leaders. Term limits ain’t going to do any good; you’re just going to end up with a brand new bunch of selfish, ignorant Americans. So, maybe, maybe, maybe, it’s not the politicians who suck. Maybe something else sucks around here… like, the public." – George Carlin https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBrbXOmnW70
"It is infinitely better to vote for freedom and fail than to vote for slavery and succeed." - Eugene V. Debs, Appeal to Reason, 1900-10-13
"Wage-labor is but a name; wage-slavery is the fact." - Eugene V. Debs, The Socialist Party and the Working Class 1904-09-01
or primaries
That the US voting system lacks the sincere favorite criterion is mathematical fact: lesser-evil voting is necessary to avoid losing the best chance of getting anyone preferable to the worst major candidate. Denying that is like denying laws of physics. You can't coerce logic & causality to your will. Just because you don't understand that doesn't mean others don't. Primaries exist to select better major party candidates.
Viable 3rd party candidates requires voting reform, which again requires passing those reforms through the current system.
Please show me one time in the past 50 years that a third party candidate in the US helped the Left win an election.
The GOP constantly funds and pushes for the Greens and Libertarians because they know those candidates sap the Dems.
The Democrats are not Left wing. They're left of the Republicans, and less authoritarian, but they're a right-wing party who crippled banking regulation in favor of oligarchy, bailed out the worst banks, lied about drilling for oil[1] and causing a mass extinction event, and kept giving Israel weapons even after they went from defending themselves to committing genocide.
The goal for ethical people is not to get the Democrats to win, but instead to elect ethical people to government, e.g Hawkins and Nader.
It's possible, even in FPTP voting systems, for people to reject the 2 parties that usually wins - see the UK where the Tories or Labour have been the only 2 winning parties for more than 90 years (including 2 short coalition governments); but where polling shows the 5th party (the horrible Reform) and 8th party (Greens) are now leading.
“It is infinitely better to vote for freedom and fail than to vote for slavery and succeed.” - Eugene V. Debs, Appeal to Reason, 1900-10-13
“Wage-labor is but a name; wage-slavery is the fact.” - Eugene V. Debs, The Socialist Party and the Working Class 1904-09-01
[1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2024/08/16/biden-oil-drilling-production/ As he campaigned for president in 2020, Joe Biden made a bold promise at a New Hampshire town hall, adding repetition for emphasis: “No more drilling on federal lands. Period. Period. Period. Period.” […] The Biden administration has now outpaced the Trump administration in approving permits for drilling on public lands, and the United States is producing more oil than any country ever has.
All that effort to show that you can't tell the difference between 'bad' and completely horrible.'
You can babble on and on, but you can't actually show one time that a strong third party candidate didn't help the GOP.
From your point-of-view, the Democrats winning is good, and the Republicans winning is bad. You might see them on a left-right scale of 0-10, where 0 is good, the Ds are at 3, the Rs at 9, and Hitler at 10.
Some other people see a bigger window than that: look at https://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2020 and compare how these people see the distance between Trump +9+9 and Biden +7+6, compared to the distance between both and Hawkins -5-3. These people agree that the Rs are worse than the Ds, but they don't want to help the Ds win because the Ds are mass-extinction causing capitalists. To convince these people to vote for the Ds instead of Greens/socialists/not-voting at all, you have to convince them that the Ds actions of:
are good, and worth voting for.
Again, you ignore the actual facts.
Maybe you live in a world of privilege where things like schools, roads, hospitals, and wars are merely theoretical. We who actually have to deal with those things know differently.
Nowhere do you link to a 3rd Party that has any realistic chance of making any change anytime soon.
Quick historical note. Look up a fellow named Frederick Douglas. He was a former slave. In 1860 he had the choice of supporting a full on pro-Abolition candidate who had almost no chance of winning or supporting a candidate who had stated he wasn't prepared to end slavery.
Douglas figured it made more sense to support a winner and have a foot in the door. He abandoned the Abolition candidate and backed the winner instead.
So, when you reply, please explain why people shouldn't follow Douglas's lead and back the imperfect candidate who might win over the 'pure' candidate who is sure to lose.
If you want to fight, you have to be prepared to lose.
It was no accident that Rosa Parks chose that particular seat on that particular day. Everyone that came before her had lost that same battle. Black folks (and the white folks who supported them) were thrown in jail for violating segregationist laws. But with each battle, knowledge and support was gained.
There's a line in the recent Fallout series that really sticks out to me. A "do good" congresswoman is trying to get an audience with the president. She is roughly shoved aside by security. Our hero helps her up and she says to him, "Fighting the good fight is mostly a series of humiliations".
I think about that a lot. It's exactly like that, because fighting the good fight mostly happens when you are alone and outnumbered. Otherwise, you're just in an echo chamber.
So, apparently you don't care how many people suffer and die so you can claim a moral victory.
If that's not the voice of privilege I don't know what it.
And I don't want to fight. I'd much rather find an acceptable compromise and be able to make gains afterwards [like Frederick Douglas did when he backed Lincoln over the Abolition candidate.]
If you feel the need to be a martyr, go ahead. Don't drag other people down with you.
There is no final victory. Ever. Not even an imaginary moral victory.
There is only and has only ever been the fight.
It's human nature.
Case in point: The tone of your comment above is combative and accusatory, rather than friendly or neutral. Why?
If you want to fight, you have to be prepared to lose.
Your words.
You are the one with the idea that it has to be a fight.
Like I said, it's better to compromise and take small victories instead of push for a heroic resolution.
And, unless you feel like answering the question I posed* before, don't bother to answer.
*I asked why we should do as Frederick Douglas did, supporting imperfect candidates who might be persuaded in the future, over 'perfect' candidates with no chance of winning?
Let's review:
AND yet...it all led to the Civil War. Which was necessary to stop the selling human beings for profit.
So, yes, if you look at the relationship between the two political entities involved, a compromise was reached. But that compromise was worthless in preventing violence.
Violence was always inevitable. It started with violence toward Africans - kidnapping and slavery. The only way to end it was more violence - a bloody, vicious civil war. This is the human condition.
More blither-blather.
You've gone from saying "If you want to fight, you have to be prepared to lose," tp saying "Violence was always inevitable."
I guess you can always win an argument if you get to change your terms from minute to minute.
It was mildly amusing, but I'm done watching you chase your own tail.