this post was submitted on 20 Mar 2026
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[–] aski3252@lemmy.world 1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

socialdemocrats entire ideology is built upon “reforming” capitalism by implementing a welfare state to more evenly spread the profits of the super exploitation of the periphery.

Technically, it's built on the idea that a socialist society can be/should be reached gradually by participating in parliamentary liberal political system instead of overthrowing liberal society and implementing a "dictatorship of the proletariat".

At least that was what the original debate was about ("reform vs revolution") that split the left apart. Since then, most social democrats have completely moved away from the idea of reaching a socialist society anytime soon (for various reasons).

The meme is pointing out the unfortunate pattern of it almost always ending in a rightward shift

The meme is clearly pointing out that "social democracy enjoyers" turn into fascists/Nazis once the economy declines. Or, if we keep OP's caption in mind, the idea that social democrats are actually fascists "wearing a mask".

directly helped bring Hitler to power

What helped Hitler seize power was not just the actions/inactions of the socdems and the economic collapse, but the deep split of the left overall, the ineffective political system and the relentless infighting to the point were socdems and communists saw eachother as equivalent or even a bigger threat than the fascists.

[–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 5 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Technically, it's built on the idea that a socialist society can be/should be reached gradually by participating in parliamentary liberal political system instead of overthrowing liberal society and implementing a "dictatorship of the proletariat".

You are mixing social democrats with democratic socialists. Democratic socialists, however ineffective or utopian, at least retain socialist aims in theory. Social democrats do not. Their program, accepts the permanence of capitalist property relations. Their project is not the abolition of exploitation but its rationalization: a "fairer" distribution of imperial superprofits among the labor aristocracy of the core. This is not a path to socialism. It is a management strategy for capitalism.

The meme is clearly pointing out that "social democracy enjoyers" turn into fascists/Nazis once the economy declines. Or, if we keep OP's caption in mind, the idea that social democrats are actually fascists "wearing a mask".

The social democrat's mask, like the liberal's, depends entirely on the surplus extracted from the periphery. When that flow contracts, the mask comes off. In the words of Malcolm X on a similar issue: "The white conservatives aren't friends of the Negro either, but they at least don't try to hide it. They are like wolves; they show their teeth in a snarl that keeps the Negro always aware of where he stands with them. But the white liberals are foxes, who also show their teeth to the Negro but pretend that they are smiling." Social democracy operates the same way. Its niceties are financed by imperial rent. When the rent falls, it defaults to open class defense.

What helped Hitler seize power was not just the actions/inactions of the socdems and the economic collapse, but the deep split of the left overall, the ineffective political system and the relentless infighting to the point were socdems and communists saw eachother as equivalent or even a bigger threat than the fascists.

I explicitly said "helped," not "solely responsible." Multiple factors converged in 1933. But the SPD's role was decisive in one key respect: they preserved the bourgeois state apparatus after 1918. Through the Ebert-Groener pact, they kept the reactionary judiciary, the imperial officer corps, and the bureaucratic machinery intact. They unleashed the Freikorps on the KPD. They refused every proposal for a united working class front against the Nazis. Stalin characterized this relationship precisely when he stated that "Social-Democracy is objectively the moderate wing of fascism" and that these organizations "are not antipodes, they are twins." The KPD's analysis recognized that in a crisis, social democracy functions as the left wing of counterrevolution. History confirmed that analysis.

[–] aski3252@lemmy.world 0 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

You are mixing social democrats with democratic socialists.

The origin and core of social democracy is clearly socialist and, in many cases, Marxist. Of course this was more and more deluted over time until today, were many social democratic parties have indeed completely abandoned their socialist roots even in theory.

However, historically, social democracy overall can (and imo should) still be seen as reformist socialism, at least partially. The way I see it, it's that the parties have abandoned social democracy by embracing neo-liberalism. have abandened those goals completely (e.g. modern German SPD, British Labour)

One could also argue that social democratic parties pretty much always had a leftist wing and a liberal wing, this is true today as well for the most part.

Its niceties are financed by imperial rent.

Isn't everything/anything existing under capitalism financed by imperial rent?

How is it different to China, for example, who also participates in the global capitalist economy and benefits from it?

When that flow contracts, the mask comes off.

When has this happened? Do you have a specific example of a social democratic party turning fascist (actually curious)? Turning neo-liberal, sure, but to me at least, equating neo-liberalism with fascism is an oversimplification. Or is the argument that socdem turns into neo-liberalism, neo-liberalism turns into fascism, ergo socdem=fascism?

>I explicitly said “helped,” not “solely responsible.” Multiple factors converged in 1933.

Fair enough.

they preserved the bourgeois state apparatus after 1918.

they kept the reactionary judiciary, the imperial officer corps, and the bureaucratic machinery intact. They unleashed the Freikorps on the KPD.

Whether or not you believe me, it does pain me to defend the SPD, but I guess I will still do it.

They didn't just preserve it, they were essential in building it. And that shouldn’t be surprising since in their view, socialism has to be build through a liberal democratic system instead of going straight from imperialist/monarchist to socialist.

And yes, they did a lot of “ultra-pragmatic” and desperate moves to protect the liberal republic and what was in their view the way towards socialism in the future and avoid a civil war/reversal of their gains. This does include them using Freikorps, which is imo indefensible, but it is at least somewhat explainable given the uncertainity of the situation.

And it's easy to judge in hindsight, but the German situation was quite different from Russia. There were uprisings all over the place, socialist republics were declared, but it was much more chaotic and the working class was much more divided. Chances of right wing and monarchists forces reversing power or even taking back more power seemed plausable.

>They refused every proposal for a united working class front against the Nazis.

This is very critical and one of the biggest issues. But again, this was a mutual thing. The KPD also refused to form any kind of front against the nazis until it was too late. Both factions failed to see nazism/fascism severely underestimated the threat of the fascists.

>Stalin characterized this relationship precisely when he stated that "Social-Democracy is objectively the moderate wing of fascism" and that these organizations "are not antipodes, they are twins."

And this characterization is in part what made it virtually impossible to form any kind of pragmatic alliance/front against the fascists and I honestly don’t understand what the purpose of this characterization is.. Why would they work with the SPD against the fascists when the SPD was, in practice, fascist itself?

social democracy functions as the left wing of counterrevolution.

Social democracy is against revolution and pro reform. If that makes it fascist, literally everything and everyone except for revolutionary socialists are/were fascists. This worldview, imo, is shooting yourself in the foot. And I don’t understand why this view still seems to be held. Many have no issue with critial support of regimes/groups/factions for specific and pragmatic goals. And then we don't live in Weihmar Germany anymore, there is virtually 0 revolutionary potential in the west, so what good does essentially turning virtually everyone into the enemy do?

[–] QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml 2 points 8 hours ago

The origin and core of social democracy is clearly socialist and, in many cases, Marxist.

Social democracy's practice has always been the administration of capitalism. The Second International's collapse in 1914 proved this materially: when imperialist war arrived, they chose nation over class. Democratic socialists on the other hand may hold socialist aims in theory, however utopian. Social democrats do not. Their program accepts capitalist property relations as permanent. Their project is the rationalization of exploitation, not its abolition: distributing a portion of imperial superprofits to the labor aristocracy of the core to stabilize the system. This is not reformist socialism but capitalist management.

Isn't everything/anything existing under capitalism financed by imperial rent? How is it different to China, for example?

The mechanism matters. The Nordic welfare state (the alleged shining example of modern social democracy) is financed by extractive capital operating in the periphery. Swedish and Norwegian firms control mines across Africa that extract cobalt, copper, and rare earths under conditions replicating colonial relations. This creates a material basis for class collaboration at home. China's path is the inverse. China was subjected to imperial plunder for a century. The revolution under Chairman Mao broke that dependency and built an independent industrial base. Today China offers an alternative development path to the periphery through initiatives like the Belt and Road, free of IMF conditionalities and enforced dependency. That is anti-imperialist practice, not imperial rent extraction.

When has this happened? Do you have a specific example of a social democratic party turning fascist?

The argument is not that social democrats literally become out and out fascists. It is that their function in crisis serves fascism. The mask depends on surplus flow. Look at Labour in the UK today. Under Starmer, they are indistinguishable from the Tories they replaced. As imperial rent shrinks, austerity and class defense move to the forefront. They back arms deals, enforce anti-union laws, and cut public services. Across Europe, social democratic parties capitulate as the far right rises. In Germany, the SPD presides over rearmament and welfare cuts. In France, the PS collapses while Macron's center holds. In Sweden, social democrats adopt anti-immigrant positions to chase right-wing voters. Social Democracys niceties are financed by imperial plunder. When that flow shrinks, it defaults to open class defense. It is not identical to fascism, but it is the bridge: austerity dismantles the welfare compromise, creating the social desperation fascism exploits.

They didn't just preserve it, they were essential in building it... it is at least somewhat explainable given the uncertainty of the situation.

"Explainable". The SPD's choice to build a liberal republic rather than smash the bourgeois state was a class choice, not a historical accident. They did not face a binary of "chaos or Weimar." They faced a choice: side with the proletarian masses who had just toppled the Kaiser, or side with the generals, judges, and bureaucrats who served capital. They chose the latter. The Ebert-Groener pact was alignment. Using the Freikorps against the KPD while negotiating with monarchists was not a tragic error. It was clear cut counterrevolution.

This is very critical and one of the biggest issues. But again, this was a mutual thing. The KPD also refused to form any kind of front against the nazis until it was too late.

The refusal was not symmetric. The SPD held state power. They controlled the police, the courts, the army. They used that power to repress communist organizing while tolerating fascist mobilization. The KPD, by contrast, had no state apparatus. Their sectarianism was a tactical failure. The SPD's collaboration with bourgeois forces was a strategic orientation. One error could have been corrected. The other was structural.

And this characterization is in part what made it virtually impossible to form any kind of pragmatic alliance/front against the fascists... Why would they work with the SPD against the fascists when the SPD was, in practice, fascist itself?

Stalin's characterization was not the cause of the split. It was the summation of material practice. The SPD had already shown, in 1919, 1920, and 1923, that they would use state violence against proletarian organizations before allying against them with the far right. The KPD's analysis recognized that a united front requires mutual trust. The SPD had forfeited that trust through their actions. The purpose of the characterization was clarity: you cannot build a front with a force that views your destruction as a precondition for stability. History confirmed that the SPD's priority was preserving the bourgeois order, not stopping fascism. That is why the "moderate wing of fascism" label stuck it is an accurate descriptor.

Many have no issue with critial support of regimes/groups/factions for specific and pragmatic goals

Critical support is possible when goals align against a principal enemy. We support Russia and Iran against imperialist aggression not because they are socialist, but because their resistance weakens the imperial core. No such alignment exists with social democrats. Their entire project is to blunt the teeth of capital at home in order to suck dry any revolutionary potential of the proletariat. They bribe sections of the working class with concessions financed by imperial plunder to enforce a false sense of class consciousness. They are enemies through and through, just like the neoliberals and the fascists. Recognizing this is not sectarianism. It is clarity. What shoot any movement in the foot is not recognizing the enemy.

Social democracy is against revolution and pro reform. If that makes it fascist, literally everything and everyone except for revolutionary socialists are/were fascists.

The definition is not "against revolution equals fascist." The definition is material: which class interest does a force serve in the decisive moment? Social democracy serves capital. When the system is stable, it administers concessions. When the system is threatened, it defends property by force. That function is what Stalin termed the moderate wing of fascism. This worldview does not turn everyone into an enemy. It identifies the enemy correctly. The West's low revolutionary potential today is precisely the result of social democracy's historical success in channeling proletarian energy into parliamentary dead ends. Abandoning class analysis to chase broader alliances does not build power. It dissolves it.