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this post was submitted on 14 Sep 2023
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politics
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I don't think people should have to subject themselves to that sort toxic interaction just because there may be an actual fucking point somewhere in their hate filled rambling.
I do, however think we should talk about real issues that effect us all, like the cross cultural friction that often comes about due to immigration. We can raise these issues without giving voice to racists.
In the end, I believe the solution will be the acceptance of other's ways, going both directions (existing and migrant).
That's very sweet, but I'm willing to bet you couldn't tell the difference between a full-on Nick Fuentes fanatic and someone who simply votes Republican because they empathize with Nick Fuentes' point. The fact that you claimed to be saying something "basic and simple" about people you label bigots tells me that. The fact that you don't think people should have to "subject themselves to that sort [of] toxic interaction" when we're simply talking about honest dialogue demonstrates a level of pessimism about human interaction so great that I could easily sympathize with people who label you toxic. If you're trying to advocate for discussion of complex issues like immigration, but refuse to negotiate with people who you label "bigoted," simply because they make racist arguments, you will inevitably fail. What I'm trying to get across to you is that those you label "the enemy" are in fact people with valuable perspectives, but I'm not saying those people should be catered to, which I think is what you're thinking I'm saying. One can empathize with a monster without becoming said monster themselves, but in order to do so, you have to see past the monster and see the damaged human being inside and recognize that said human being has a valid, reasonable motivation for becoming said monster. But this notion that people shouldn't have to subject themselves to the "toxic" interaction of dealing with monsters? Welcome to fucking reality, my friend. It's not pretty. And if you think people shouldn't have to deal with the ugly parts of existence, you might as well check out from reality itself, yourself. Part of Haidt's point is that dealing with these objectionable aspects of reality is what cultivates not just resilience in us, but complex character; and that is inherently valuable and good for not just society, but you as a person.
You keep putting words in my mouth. I never said "enemy", that's all you. I didn't say the world is pretty, fair or right. I said slavers are bigots, and you got all upset. I don't think you disagree with me at all.
Seriously, don't put words in my mouth, it's rude. Notice how I have not made assumptions about your position, and am merely stating my view. You keep ASSUMING that my words mean something other than what I'm saying. Stop it. Address the actual words I'm using, bigots are bigots even if they have a point. You said "monster", which is a judgement where as "bigot" is a way of identifying people who hold a prejudice world-view which makes them and their "group" superior to another. That's it. No other words.
You're getting hung up on my specific words and failing to respond to my points. Bigots are not "bigots," "that's it. no other words." LOL. Spoken like a true bigot. You're guilty of the exact same thing you're railing against, and I'm not debating your definition of the word "bigot" here, simply pointing out you're a hypocrite by your own definition.
But this conversation has clearly reached the limit of its utility, at least for me. Ta-ta.