0
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 14 Sep 2023
0 points (50.0% liked)
politics
19244 readers
2245 users here now
Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!
Rules:
- Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.
Example:
- Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
- Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
- No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
- Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
- No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
That's all the rules!
Civic Links
• Congressional Awards Program
• Library of Congress Legislative Resources
• U.S. House of Representatives
Partnered Communities:
• News
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
LOL, I'm not angry, dude, and I don't know what I've said thus far that suggests that to you. I'm incredulous. I don't see any value in what you're saying. You claim to be saying "basic, simple things" about other people, but there's literally nothing basic or simple about human beings. I'm not saying you should try to empathize with Nick Fuentes because he might be redeemable (I don't think he is, quite frankly); I'm saying that learning how he became the bigot he is will inform you about something valuable, something real in his opinions that--while he might take it too far--is a valid fucking point. Xenophobes who don't tolerate any form of immigration are almost always motivated to that extreme point of view by an experience that reflects a real, respectable perspective, such as the fact that allowing people with customs and values radically different from ours into our living spaces will inevitably lead to strife and conflict. What we do in response to that or whether we allow it in the first place is a worthy debate to have, but just labeling them "racists" and refusing to consider their perspectives is an act of bigotry itself.
I don't think people should have to subject themselves to that sort toxic interaction just because there may be an actual fucking point somewhere in their hate filled rambling.
I do, however think we should talk about real issues that effect us all, like the cross cultural friction that often comes about due to immigration. We can raise these issues without giving voice to racists.
In the end, I believe the solution will be the acceptance of other's ways, going both directions (existing and migrant).
That's very sweet, but I'm willing to bet you couldn't tell the difference between a full-on Nick Fuentes fanatic and someone who simply votes Republican because they empathize with Nick Fuentes' point. The fact that you claimed to be saying something "basic and simple" about people you label bigots tells me that. The fact that you don't think people should have to "subject themselves to that sort [of] toxic interaction" when we're simply talking about honest dialogue demonstrates a level of pessimism about human interaction so great that I could easily sympathize with people who label you toxic. If you're trying to advocate for discussion of complex issues like immigration, but refuse to negotiate with people who you label "bigoted," simply because they make racist arguments, you will inevitably fail. What I'm trying to get across to you is that those you label "the enemy" are in fact people with valuable perspectives, but I'm not saying those people should be catered to, which I think is what you're thinking I'm saying. One can empathize with a monster without becoming said monster themselves, but in order to do so, you have to see past the monster and see the damaged human being inside and recognize that said human being has a valid, reasonable motivation for becoming said monster. But this notion that people shouldn't have to subject themselves to the "toxic" interaction of dealing with monsters? Welcome to fucking reality, my friend. It's not pretty. And if you think people shouldn't have to deal with the ugly parts of existence, you might as well check out from reality itself, yourself. Part of Haidt's point is that dealing with these objectionable aspects of reality is what cultivates not just resilience in us, but complex character; and that is inherently valuable and good for not just society, but you as a person.
You keep putting words in my mouth. I never said "enemy", that's all you. I didn't say the world is pretty, fair or right. I said slavers are bigots, and you got all upset. I don't think you disagree with me at all.
Seriously, don't put words in my mouth, it's rude. Notice how I have not made assumptions about your position, and am merely stating my view. You keep ASSUMING that my words mean something other than what I'm saying. Stop it. Address the actual words I'm using, bigots are bigots even if they have a point. You said "monster", which is a judgement where as "bigot" is a way of identifying people who hold a prejudice world-view which makes them and their "group" superior to another. That's it. No other words.
You're getting hung up on my specific words and failing to respond to my points. Bigots are not "bigots," "that's it. no other words." LOL. Spoken like a true bigot. You're guilty of the exact same thing you're railing against, and I'm not debating your definition of the word "bigot" here, simply pointing out you're a hypocrite by your own definition.
But this conversation has clearly reached the limit of its utility, at least for me. Ta-ta.