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this post was submitted on 05 Oct 2023
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If is is patriarchy, it is caused by religion.
Just a coincidence that every single religion came up with it, and China retains it despite having got rid of religion.
Yeah, that makes loads of sense. Sure you're right. Carry on, nothing to see here.
Religion = Patriarchy
No religion =/= No Patriarchy
Don't get confused.
Religion is a tool that comes in very handy for patriarchy. And all major religions are patriarchal because patriarchy came first. But religion is not a necessary nor sufficient condition for patriarchy to flourish. Patriarchy twists everything to its own purpose. That's the whole suffocating thing about power. It can protect itself like nothing else can.
I agree that it went like this:
Patriarchy -> Religion -> Patriarchy
I'll never understand why women nowadays are still servant of religion. "Yes, ill serve my man. I'm nothing but a baby carrier". It's crazy.
People make decisions with constrained choices. If you're a woman livng in a patriarchal society which limits your ability to earn an income, and will demonise you for not staying home with your children, then you need to reliably attach yourself to a man who can earn the income you can't. That's how the marriage bar was justified. (Middle-class) married women were denied (white collar) employment to make more room for men to advance their careers. And why there are mixed feelings about divorce. Being trapped in marriage is no fun but neither is being abandoned with limited ability to earn a living alone.
Hostile sexism tends to co-exist with benevolent sexism. In places where there is a lot of anti-woman sexism, the women tend to hold more hostile and more benevolent views of men (eg men are violent therefore I need a big strong man to protect me).
If cancer were cured tomorrow people would still eventually die, just not from cancer. That doesn't mean that cancer does not kill.
Yes there are shit governments and oppressive societies that, on paper at least claim, to be secular. That doesn't mean religions are blameless and not the source of immense human suffering.
Well, exactly? Cancer is a sometimes fatal disease. But it is not the only way that people die. So someone looking at a fatal road traffic accident and cursing cancer for it is not saying anything profound or useful, they're just very confused.
Ok but I am pretty freaken sure if you listen to what the Iranian government has to say they are crystal clear about why they are doing this.
I don't grasp the mystery here but I have seen it since 2001. We keep saying "this isn't Islam this isn't religion" when the people doing this horrific stuff are clear that it is Islam and it is religion. The only one doubting the motivations, effectively calling them liars, are western apologists.
That does not contradict anything I've said. And why are you singling out Islam when every single religion is used to justify awful things by people who just want to do awful things.
Sorry did you not read my multiple screeds against other religions in this thread or did you just not care?
Also fuck that logic. I am not an EEO ranting provider. I don't have to make sure that every religion gets equal amount of time being yelled at. I hope you enjoyed your BBC documentary about how really peaceful Islam secretly is.
Yeah, Lemmy is designed around topics, not people. I did not go and read every post in your history before responding. Sorry about that.
I am not a fan of religion. But it is a social construct. It exists because people need to find ways to explain and bring order to the world around them. It attracts people who crave certainty and leaders who wish to dominate and control. You're mistaking the symptom for the disease.
Patriarchy predates monotheistic religions by quite some time, and was not (is not) religiously codified into all polytheistic religions. Hinduism for example is not explicitly patriarchal. Patriarchy in ancient Greece was similarly not explicitly religiously-motivated - rather, Ancient Greeks imposed their (at the time, current) cultural norms upon their religion, which was significantly more malleable than modern monotheistic (e.g. Abrahamic) religions.
In fact, very strong arguments can be made that patriarchy shaped religion, as opposed to the other way around.
See Romans in the Bible, for an easily-googleable example of one man imposing his personal ideas onto a nascent church.