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this post was submitted on 09 Nov 2023
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Or they could have been brutally honest and said "more than half of democrats approve of enabling genocide".
And before you say "but Trump and the Republicans are much worse", yes that's obviously true but that's besides the point.
If we're truely being honest then the majority of Americans think Isrealis are all descended from holocaust survivors surrounded by Bin Ladens who hate freedom.
American education is extremely hyper focused on itself and itself exclusively. A US student only learns about other countries through the propaganda version of armed conflicts it personally participated in.
As an American high school student in the early 90's I was taught that Israel was a great friend to the USA and always being attacked just because other countries didn't like Jews.
I have a better understanding of things now but it does help me understand why Israel gets so much support from my and older generations.
One turtle tells me news that I like to hear and let's me forget about the bastards over there that we keep supporting
Actually, if they were being genuinely honest, it would be more like "more than half of democrats think Biden's making the best choice in an all-round shitty situation". None of us approve of enabling genocide.
Some people actually think "pushing Israel to set rules of engagement" is some of the best we're going to get if we can't get the entire world on-board. Nobody wants to invade Israel to stop this (do they), and Israel is out for blood right now. Trying to focus them towards Hamas and not "destroying Palastine" might be the only win we can have 7,000 miles away.
I'm a fence-sitter on this issue, but I think the majority that supports Biden's plan do so for reasons that have nothing to do with "enabling genocide".
I get that you want us to condemn Israel. And I'm sure it's been considered. I also undersetand there are ramifications to the US of doing that, and it won't necessarily save a single Palestinian life.
That's a self-contradiction since what you guys think is the "best choice" is objectively enabling genocide by unquestioningly supporting the government committing it while punishing those that speak up against it.
It isn't, though. Israel has been setting their own rules the whole time and that's the majority of what caused the whole thing.
Of course not.
That's not being done, though. Unless there's consequences such as withholding military (but not humanitarian) aid and possibly targeted sanctions, the apartheid regime is going to continue committing atrocities.
Yes and no: I believe that most of the people who supports his genocide-enabling are under- or misinformed enough to not know that they're indirectly supporting genocide.
Of course. Anything else is being complicit.
Probably not seriously, no. The neoliberal Dem leadership depend too much on bribes from AIPAC and others like them.
I guarantee you that no longer getting the financial and political support of the US would force them to be less aggressive, which would save thousands of lives.
I think objectively doesn't mean what you think it means. But more importantly, even if you're right about there being a better response than Biden's (and you might be; it's a complicated issue), that doesn't mean people who support Biden's position agree that you're right. Which means, NO, objectively, they do not "approve of enabling genocide". Just look at literally the other reply to me that agreed with me at length. And if there are at least two people who support Biden's decisions in this thread alone that do not "approve of enabling genocide", then I bet you any money there's at least 2 more out in the US. "Perhaps more than that!"
I called you on your bad-faith accusation that Democratic voters "approve of enabling genocide", and nothing in your reply to me reduces the accuracy of what I called you on. You're just getting into the weeds arguing politics now.
If you want, I'd be happy to join that conversation as well. As soon as you concede that the "approve of enabling genocide" thing was excessive and bad faith.
It's a fact that the tack Biden is taking amounts to enabling genocide. Whether you know that or not, saying you approve of his handling of the situation is saying that you approve of enabling genocide no matter if you know it or not.
In other words:
Biden's plan is objectively enabling genocide
Some people who don't consider themselves in favor of enabling genocide support Biden
The thing that those people say they support is enabling genocide, no matter how ignorant of reality or in denial they are.
Curious who made Viking Hippie the sole arbiter of truth. How many experts disagreeing with you makes it less "we're all objectively enabling genocide"?
What if I think Viking Hippie is "objectively enabling genocide"? It's a fact (ok, it's just a thought experiment). That means I get to say anyone that agrees with you is "objectively enabling genocide", right?
3 days to come back with "you're wrong because it's arrogant to be confident that you're you're right when people are paid to be wrong"? Damn, you're really bad at this! 😂
With all due respect, when your opinion is "your argument AND the supermajority is wrong because I said so", you don't leave an opening for anything more constructive.
I don't make a good Soyjak
What supermajority would that be? Only Republicans surpass the 60% threshold and surely you don't consider them arbiters of truth.
As for what I'm basing my argument on, it's the Geneva Convention and countless UN motions defeated by ridiculous vetoes from a partisan US delegation.
What the Israeli government is doing is by definition several kinds of war crimes, including genocide and ethnic cleansing.
That's what Biden is supporting by supporting the Israeli government so, whether you're aware of it and generally ok with genocide or not, supporting what Biden is doing is by definition supporting the enabling of genocide.
Do you get it now or are your partisan blinders so thick as to make you ideologically incapable of understanding that those you support can sometimes do indefensible things?