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this post was submitted on 08 Dec 2023
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Keep in mind he was god damn 15.
That kid should be given help, not just dumped into a prison.
I hate the American "justice" system. All this will lead to us for Ethan to become more dysfunctional and become more of a danger to society once he is out of juvenile. Because of fucking course mental care apparently doesn't exist.
He killed four of his classmates and wounded seven others. 15 years old is old enough to know how terrible the impact of his actions would be. There is certainly more that we as a society could have done to help him with his mental illness, but that does not erase his agency and make him not responsible for his crimes. He has more than earned his punishment.
Did he have much agency in this case? He texted his mother about hearing demons and ghosts and she did nothing. He kept a baby bird's head in a jar and tortured other animals and his parents sought no help for him. Instead, they bought him a fucking gun. He very clearly has some form of schizophrenia and/or sociopathy. When the obvious signs are there and the people responsible for him (his parents) actually enable his violent tendencies, can we really be surprised that he acted them out?
What does the punishment accomplish, in your view?
Also, what would you say is the age cut off, roughly, where kids who commit crimes are not fully responsible for their actions?
Punishment, in this case, is used to attempt to dissuade others who would try to replicate his actions. It's not going to work for a lot of people but it will for some. On the flip-side, one could argue that if he was helped by the authorities after his incident then some may see replicating it as a path to their own healing process... Pretty fucked up. I still think it would be better for society if this person was sentenced to the help they needed to reenter society as a functioning and contributing citizen.
As for your second question, I don't think there is one straight answer for that or at least I've never heard a satisfying one.
It's definitely a weird spot to discuss.
There was a guy who talked about how he was almost a school shooter and was stopped and he discussed his perspective on being a mentality ill teen with access to firearms. People were so fucking vile to that guy, loads of harassment and people say he deserves prison and telling him to kill himself.
So instead of trying to utilize this person, who wasn't a mass murder, and gain an inside look into what it's like for this kids, the world would rather just shit all over them, even when they shoot a grand total of 0 people.
I get for some it's a tough talk, but the fact that we aren't is a huge part of the problem to begin with.
Maybe the kid had issues mentally.
But we should NOT be hearing news about 15 year old kids killing other kids in a society.
That is 15 years of failure in upbringing. Failure of society. Failure of culture.
The newspaper headlines should be
"Why are our kids falling off from being just kids"
not
"That kid who killed the other kids is gone for good"
and yet another wretched example of the US gun owner's failure to responsibly control their firearms.
He does need mental health care, but he also needs punishment for taking the lives of 4 people. There is no way at 15, someone is unaware that killing 4 people is bad, and should be redeemed of any wrongdoing. Nope. At that age in the U.S., you already have a permit to drive. I agree he needs major help, but he shouldn't get to stay in a psych unit for the murder of 4 people. He knowingly and brutally stole the most valuable thing they had, their only chance at life. There must be consequences.
You assume that someone taught him right from wrong. Seeing as his parents are also being charged that is not a given.
You can't seriously suggest that as he gunned down his classmates he was wondering "I wonder if I'll get in trouble for this."
That excuse only works for toddlers who discharge their parent's firearm. Every 15 year old knows that murder is wrong. If his parents forgot to tell him, he would've learned in kindergarten. During his active shooter drills.
Schizophrenia can be a much stronger force than those morals that are imparted on kids. The kid texted his mom claiming to hear demons and see ghosts. You can't tell me that is someone who is in a sane state of mind.
People who suffer from schizophrenia are generally capable of distinguishing right from wrong. It is a common misconception that they are a danger to society. Mental illness is not enough to transform people into killers.
Generally is the key word there. Yes, generally people with schizophrenia are more likely to be victims of violence than to commit it but not always especially if he has other mental health issues. It also does not generally manifest until the early 20s for males but clearly it came in very early for him.
At the very least, we can all agree that he desperately needed mental help and his parents completely ignored it while also giving him the means to carry out deadly violence.
His other mental health issue is that he is a sociopath.
Most likely considering he tortured animals.
Exactly. Also, I agree that his parents were total failures at multiple levels. They fully deserve the manslaughter charges they now face.
Using active shooter drills as an excuse to justify jailing a 15 yr old for life is about as obtuse as you can get.
I'm using active shooter drills to refute the idea that he didn't know active shooters are wrong.
Whether or not he should be jailed for life is a different question.
However you say it, it's still wrong.
You're the one defending a mass murderer, not me.
I speculate he was probably neglected emotionally at a minimum, possibly abused on top of some other issue or issues. That level of rage and violence usually doesn't come out of nowhere. There may be genetic predispositions involved. The thing is, I don't think we have a clear enough picture of the causes. It's difficult since often shooters take their own lives.
Edited to add:
I think our society fucking sucks. We would rather let a kid destroy lives, then destroy his in retribution than lift a fucking finger to help anywhere along the way.
The whole thing could almost certainly been avoided had his parents sought any semblance of mental help. He told them he was seeing and hearing shit and that his mental state was not good. They decided to ignore that and give him a gun for Christmas instead. His parents were irresponsible drunk fuck heads that deserve years upon years in prison. The kid needs years in a mental health institution.
He's probably getting life. The judge said no parole was possible, but that does seem extreme for a 15 year old. He absolutely needed help, and his parents likely just caused further harm, fortunately they are also facing charges.
This is a tragedy on every end. I hope those parents face punishment.
A god damn 15 year old CHILD shouldn't get prison for life and only a psychopath would think so.
Having a child around that age reminds me just how much of a child someone at that age is.
Child needs to be shouted more.
His actions have no excuse regardless but no amount of punishment makes what happened better, keep him locked up whatever but please get him help too.
It is pretty obvious he is psychotic and his parents did less than nothing to help by ignoring his violent tendencies and even buying him the fucking gun.
Sounds kinda like they should be prosecuted for negligence or something.
Negligence? No.
His parents are now being prosecuted for manslaughter.
Perfect. I didn't know enough to know if that was a thing, but that's almost what I mentioned.
He should receive help, but he shouldn't be allowed to be with the general public.
I think it's obvious that his parents were mentally damaged and traumatized the boy, nevermind the neglect and tacit encouragement at the end.
Everyone is so hell bent on retribution, no matter the cost. What we want is someone who won't assault or murder others, owns their actions, and repays society to whatever degree possible - zero of those things are developed in prison.
Don't worry about that. He's not getting out.
Good.
He won't be getting out.
The sad part is, they'll probably release a rapist or child molester back into the world to make room for a kid that should be getting help.
Maybe, just maybe after some prison time he'll have a another chance at getting out.
he was 15, and made a sophisticated plan to both murder innocents AND surrender himself so he could maximize the amount of time taking in his victim's suffering.
I'm not convinced there's any helping this psychopath.
Nah. When I was 15 I knew shooting up a school was wrong and anyone who did it should suffer the consequences for their actions.
I'm excited for when you people start saying this about adults.