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submitted 11 months ago by Critical_Insight@feddit.uk to c/linux@lemmy.ml

https://mullvad.net/en/help/install-mullvad-app-linux

Trying to install VPN and these are the instructions Mullvad is giving me. This is ridiculous. There must be a more simple way. I know how to follow the instructions but I have no idea what I'm doing here. Can't I just download a file and install it? I'm on Ubuntu.

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[-] Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 13 points 11 months ago

The problem is that for most users, when their setup is completed they won't need to play with it for a while so after that any time they need to install something new through the terminal it means losing time to find instructions again.

Nothing is learned, to the eyes of a casual users it's just meaningless entries getting copy/pasted and it's information getting repeated again and again and again just with slightly different entries for each program. Meanwhile "how to install a program on Windows" would basically require one page on the whole internet to cover 99% of situations: "Download the install file, double click it, follow the on screen instructions to automatically install the program".

[-] Nibodhika@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago

The problem is that for most users, when their setup is completed they won't need to play with it for a while so after that any time they need to install something new through the terminal it means losing time to find instructions again.

Which is why it's better to understand what you're doing than blindly copying pasting. You won't need to remember these since whatever you want to install if it's not on the repos you'll have to google it same as if you were on Windows.

Also on Windows the steps are: Download the install file, double click it, follow the on screen instructions to automatically install the program, then every week or so go back to the website, check if a new version was released, if so download it and install it again. If the configuration would be destroyed by doing this first, make a backup first, if the new version is not backwards compatible for configuration move the existing configuration changes so that you get the new default after install and can apply your changes afterwards.

That's closer to the truth, and you need to do that weekly for every one of the dozen or hundreds of programs a person has, no wonder people don't update their programs on Windows and become susceptible to lots of exploits over time.

Also, read my option 1, which is what most websites offer you first, i.e. download a .deb and run it which is the equivalent of Windows, with all of its downsides. For example if you go to that website that OP posted and click on downloads you can select Windows, Mac or Linux, and you can download an installer that way and be done with it. But only Linux has a better option that takes a couple more steps but saves you lots of time in the future.

[-] Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 1 points 11 months ago

then every week or so go back to the website, check if a new version was released, if so download it and install it again

Don't know what kind of program you're running but... No.

Also if you want adoption you need to make your product easy to use and not ask them to become experts at how things work. Do you think all bike riders know how to adjust their derailer or even care to know? No, because people have other things they care about. Same guess 6 for computers, if Linux requires users to understand how to do things manually in the terminal then the "year of the Linux computer" will never happen.

[-] atzanteol@sh.itjust.works 5 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

the "year of the Linux computer" will never happen.

It won't, that's fine. People who don't want to lean anything about computers use iOS and Android now. And that's fine. I never want Linux distros to become like that.

[-] someacnt_@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago

Honestly the more I hear "year of linux will never happen", the more I am convinced it might come. I see ppl being defensive against a new trend

[-] Nibodhika@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago

Don't know what kind of program you're running but... No.

My Linux has updates every week, which means that if I was on Windows to keep everything the same up to date I would need to check every website to see which app released this week, maybe this week Firefox had a new release, maybe next week it's mullvad VPN, and next week is the NVIDIA driver, but if I hadn't checked all of them I would not know which ones have a new release.

Also if you want adoption you need to make your product easy to use and not ask them to become experts at how things work

Agreed, but also you should have options so that power users can take advantage of it.

Do you think all bike riders know how to adjust their derailer or even care to know?

Do you think that bikes should not have gears since most people don't know how they work? No, because even if you don't understand the mechanics you can understand the general terms, and even if you don't understand gears you can just not use them, same as a package manager. Options is always better.

if Linux requires users to understand how to do things manually in the terminal then the "year of the Linux computer" will never happen.

It doesn't require it, you're ignoring the fact that OP could have just clicked download and download an installer same as he would on Windows. But if you can use the terminal and understand package managers you can use Linux in a way that Windows is impossible, if you can't you can still use Linux in the same way you would windows with all of the sales downsides.

[-] MyNameIsRichard@lemmy.ml 1 points 11 months ago

if Linux requires users to understand how to do things manually in the terminal

It doesn't require it but it is often easier. It's also alien when you're new.

this post was submitted on 01 Jan 2024
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