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this post was submitted on 15 Jan 2024
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Germany will have to be ashamed of itself once again very soon, but this time no one will be able to say 'I didn't know'.
Right, because Germany is acting so awfully one-sided. Do I need to remind you that Germany is the 2nd largest contributor to Palestinian foreign aid? And that it has on numerous occasions criticised Isreal for its way of waging war? But yeah make this entirely black and white and act like this is David versus Goliath
Germany hardly criticised Israel for how it wages war. Instead Germany is still one of the few countries left calling for "humanitarian fire pauses" instead of a ceasefire. It is the German government that cracked down extensively on protests against the genocide and that threatens to deport people if they don't pledge allegiance to Israel. It is the german public broadcasting that is simply not reporting on Israeli war crimes, and that didnt report for month on the number of Palestinians killed by Israel, while at every occasion talking about the 07. October.
Now the German government came out harshly criticising the charge by South Africa, instead of waiting for the court to reach its decision. The aid that did go to Palestine is laughable compared to the military aid Israel receives.
Germany cracked down on anti-Semitism in the streets, which Germany is obligated to do and it's also the only correct thing to do. And state-funded news is fairly neutral from what I was able to gather. Our politicians are kinda whack in all this. But they've been fighting each other for so long now, that nothing useful comes from them anymore. It's almost like in the USA now.
No Germany cracked down on anti-Zionism.
Even Jewish Germans got harassed by the police for protesting Israel’s crimes.
The police banned a jewish demonstration against violence in the middle east.-German article
A jewish women demonstrating was arrested by the police.
German government leadin social democrats boycott jewish Bernie Sanders becausenof Israel
City of Bremen denies rooms to Hannah Arendt Prize jewish investigative Journalist Masha Gessen-German article
As @Quokka said it is a crackdown on anti-zionism, not on anti-semitism. Instead the German government is happy to commit anti-semitism, by persecuting and silencing jews, who are critical of Israel.
For further read i highly recommend this analysis on the anti-semitism officers in Germany, whose job it is to protect Germanys way of repenting for the Holocaust by blind support for Israel and to deny real antisemitism by Germanys far right and conservative political actors.
https://jewishcurrents.org/the-strange-logic-of-germanys-antisemitism-bureaucrats
anti-semitism nowadays is usually expressed throught the pretext of "anti-zionism". While I agree German authorities didn't do a good job at managing the protetsts, there is no denial that some prostestors have expressed anti-semitic ideas during some protests
The claim that anti-semitism is hidden under anti-zionism is used extensively in Germany, often to muddy the water and not deal with legitimate anti-zionism on a factual basis. This is done deliberately, both instrumentalising jewish people, that might want nothing to do with Israel and attacking jewish people that voice criticism of Israel. Both dimensions of this are anti-semitic as they deny jewish people a position and voice outside of the context of Israel.
If you read the analysis on the antisemtism officers in Germany you will see, that this is not a pattern that only came into existence with the current protests, but a systemic issue in Germany, which is deliberately caused. The article in the jewish currents was published in July, almost three month before the Hamas attacks of 07. October.
It is true that some use anti-zionism as a platform to promote anti-semitism, but it is impossible to have a proper debate about it and differentiate these two in Germany. Also mixing them up like this prevents the possibility from identifying anti-semitism that could be prevented by honestly educating people about the differences and lines to it. But if for instance demonstrations in Germany are banned by default, students in schools are punished for bringing Palestinian flags and similiar persecutions occur, it is difficult to challenge anti-semitic prejudice like jews secretely exerting power on other countries. By blaming all anti-zionist positions to be anti-semitic, it also creates a reaction of defiance, where people feel inclined to take on anti-semitic positions, as they are labeled anti-semitic either way, even if voicing legitimate criticism of Israel.
both is true: Anti-semitism under the pretext of anti-zionism and legitimate critizism labeled as anti-semitism. Jewish people are instrumentalized by both supporters of the Israeli governent and anti-zionists.
not impossible, but people don't pay attention to those who have nuance opinions. If you speak German, a good example would be this podcast by Jung und Naiv.
I agree with that. In the same way, denying that anti-zionism and anti-semitism interconnected is equally unhelpful
That is true.
Das Video habe ich gesehen. ;) Die Kritik von Tomer geht mMn. in eine ähnliche Richtung, wie wir jetzt besprechen.
Ja, das Podcast hat sehr gut getan. Traurig, dass solchen Ansichten so wenig Aufmerksamkeit gegeben wird
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
this podcast by Jung und Naiv
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Germany debates tying citizenship to Israel loyalty - Deutsche Welle - December 8 2023
Pledging loyalty to Israel and recognizing that Israel has a right to exist sound like very different things to me. Don't get me wrong this change is dangerous but not for the reasons you think. It shows how AFD managed to push right wing ideas into the mainstream.
The segment of DW above was like a response to this comment:
Since Germany has not even recognized the right to exist of Palestine, having to recognize the right of existence of Israel in order to get a citizenship, seems to me awfully one-sided.
If I understand correctly it is still a debate. A one-sided, one.
Also in relation to your comment:
The way I see it, it's more "Pledging loyalty to Israel by recognizing that Israel has a right to exist"
That's all correct and I agree with you on these points. What I'm trying to say is that this change is (I think, not 100% sure because I wasn't in the room of course) made to combat "imported antisemitism" wich is a different "issue" from the Israel situation entirely. There would not have to be a recognition to the right to exist for Palestine because they are not receiving the type of discrimination by imigrants the Jewish community does.
Palestinian foreign aid is a stopgap for Palestinians not being allowed to have their own country with a real economy. After defending Israel on the international (and domestic, seeing as they've been arresting protesters left and right) stage it's the least they could do to give Palestinians something to eat since they're the ones denying them the right to feed themselves.
But that is simply not true. The aid has been going on for far more than a decade and Germany has always tried negotiating between the Palestinian democratic movement and Israel. Sadly after the death of the Palestinian leader, sorry for not remembering his name, any hope of keeping Hamas in check was gone. And now there's barely any way to make a state work in Palestine, except for a muslim califate similar to Afghanistan. Why Israel doesn't want this, should be self-explanatory
Why are many nations so psychopathic? Most individual humans are decent people: You might not be best friends with everyone, don't like your neighbour's taste of music, or that green jacket he always wears, or be jealous because he has a nicer carpet in his apartment. But you still don't kill him.
Nations? Good luck! Do we tend to elect psychopaths as leaders? Do only psychopaths want to be politicians?
Psychopaths are the kind of people, that have both the ambition and the ruthlessness to get into influential positions
There's a quote of a guy whose name I forgot, foreign politician for Germany's social centre party. People have morals, foreign diplomacy doesn't and mustn't. It's always about what the country needs, completely unhinged form any morality.
It was Yasir Arafat. It was back in 1993.
I pledge allegiance to the flag, of the united......
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20240104-will-germany-force-new-citizens-to-pledge-allegiance-to-israel/
Great what a source. That's not even an article. Besides the headline is entirely misleading. But yeah, jump on the bandwagon without thinking for yourself. Very reflected and liberal of you
You can look it up yourself if the above is not good enough for you
Just to be clear, asking people to confirm they agree to Israel’s right to exist is not the same as pledging loyalty. I don’t know if it’s a translation error or a deliberate attempt to make the point seem worse.
It’s radical to me that someone things tying people’s naturalisation to a foreign policy position is a good idea, is seems a pretty shitty one, but they aren’t asking for a blood oath.
Yeah, fesding them with one hand and let them be killed with the other. How nice of them.
Or maybe there's some nuance to it. But I guess Lemmy and Reddit are both just full of extremistic shitheads.
There goes your nuance I guess. :)
My nuance joined the massive blocklist of Tankies and Nazis and their overwhelming amounts of bad faith arguments.
Yeah, not everyone has your fine arguments..
Well done. Now we're even defending the worst of the worst for the sake of arguing with me. You've played yourself even more.
What? 🤣🤣🤣
Yikes. I'm out.