81
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[-] AmarkuntheGatherer@lemmygrad.ml 27 points 7 months ago

All of which makes more sense when one remembers Herbert lived in a pre-9/11 world where the people who knew the word Jihad would also know it means struggle and doesn't necessarily refer to a holy war.

It's still wild to me that the successors actually made the Butlerian Jihad about a war with AI. I thought it was quite obvious that thinking machines didn't mean machines with thought and cognition, rather they were simply tools that reduce the amount of thinking people did.

[-] Wheaties@hexbear.net 16 points 7 months ago

That wasn't the original intention? I thought that was a core part of the series, that the task of computation was put to people, the mentats, after they swore off Turing machines altogether?

[-] fox@hexbear.net 19 points 7 months ago

When Dune was written, the most terrifying computers out there were conceptually like HAL 9000: a machine that acts like a human. The battle with HAL isn't a balls to the wall sci-fi war against AI but a man trying to survive a malfunctioning machine on which there is too much reliance. That's not even subtext, HAL straight up is given too much conflicting responsibility and fails because it is a machine. And while 2001 came out after Dune, it's kind of a useful mark of the zeitgeist at the time towards computers.

The Butlerian Jihad is straightforwardly based on Darwin Among The Machines, an essay by Samuel Butler, which more or less argues we should be anprims because otherwise we constantly cede responsibility and power to machines and eventually will find ourselves inferior to them. It's not a "Ooh, Skynet" argument like Herbert's son made it, it's a human supremacy over nature argument. What are we if not supreme over all other forms? What is the hierarchy if humans aren't at the top?

Herbert, as a world building exercise because computers are boring, decided to have a reason there aren't any smart computers in Dune. Of course they still have Turing machines, or otherwise nobody could fly a thopter or operate a spice harvester or dew factory or the myriad spacecraft. But being smart is reserved for humans and having giant brains is reserved for Mentats, and even they're shown to be very fallible. Piter dies because he didn't think the Duke would be a threat, Hawat fails as the Duke's Mentat because he couldn't imagine Yueh was the traitor until his dying breath.

[-] oregoncom@hexbear.net 12 points 7 months ago

We thought the massive starships controlled by human navigators and with 100% analog control systems were a cool world building idea, but actually herbert was just boomer brained.

this post was submitted on 03 Mar 2024
81 points (100.0% liked)

chapotraphouse

13474 readers
1060 users here now

Banned? DM Wmill to appeal.

No anti-nautilism posts. See: Eco-fascism Primer

Vaush posts go in the_dunk_tank

Dunk posts in general go in the_dunk_tank, not here

Don't post low-hanging fruit here after it gets removed from the_dunk_tank

founded 3 years ago
MODERATORS