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this post was submitted on 24 Mar 2024
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[Outdated, please look at pinned post] Casual Conversation
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yeah! prairie dogs gossip; crows tell stories, have communities, and some of them even seem to understand money; whales mourn the deaths of other whales
sentience is trippy, and it's always been questionable to me that we decided we're the only sentient life on the planet
i already get emotionally attached to, like, roombas and those suitcases that connect to your phone and follow you around, i can't wait to have a robo buddy
Just make a mr stabby. If it has to suffer, so do we.
Speaking purely as a layman, I find these kinds of claims very questionable at best and at worst it's anthropomorphism in my eyes. I can understand animals exchange information in some way or another, but "telling stories" or "gossip" would require a higher form of communication than just grunts, smells or body language.
It could just be scientists using simple wording for lay people, but to me it doesn't sound right regardless.
it was me using simpler phrasing in part because i couldn't remember the details very well
but i was referencing an experiment where researchers wearing "threatening" and "non-threatening" masks interacted with and marked crows, and other crows in that area who they had not interacted with recognized them later. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0003347209005806 (however that crows tell stories is, as far as i know, only a popular interpretation, their official conclusion, at least of this experiment, is that crows are capable of long term memory retention and fine-feature discrimination)
and simple observations suggesting prairie dogs may have a very advanced language - which went viral in my online circles with people joking that they gossip about us, which probably just stuck with me because i think it would be very cute
i personally believe that animals most likely do communicate among each other and the complexities of their languages just varies, even if most are not obviously very complex. my personal beliefs are that communication is complicated and can happen through more than verbal/vocal language, animals are clearly capable of feeling complex emotions and pain which is enough for me personally to consider them sentient, and (again this is just my personal belief) i believe it's probably better to treat them as if they are sentient until proven otherwise than the opposite. and just to be upfront and honest with others and myself about my possible biases, i believe in the Buddhist concept of Saṃsāra, and believe that that we're all a part of the same cycle of death and rebirth
edit found some more info:
prairie dogs: https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/prairie-dogs-language-decoded-by-scientists-1.1322230
crows: https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/the-interesting-thing-that-crows-do-when-they-see-one-of-their-own-dead/2016/03/18/78d97a9e-ec48-11e5-b0fd-073d5930a7b7_story.html
that article also mentions that crows have been observed to make and use tools, which is something i knew but forgot to mention and is interesting and feels relevant to this conversation
Anthropomorphism has long been used as a big bad thing, the catchall excuse to keep animals as the stupid things they were supposed to be. We're coming back from that thankfully.
It doesn't mean the animals function the same way we do. But they do function in a lot of very similar ways.
My point is I can't see how they can "gossip" or "tell stories", if that isn't textbook anthropomorphism I don't know what that is.
It's shorthand for information sharing. Which they certainly do. Crows will absolutely tell one another about lots of stuff, such as people that have harmed them.