[Meta] Admins (not mods) here are already swinging around the content-removal-hammer (bookwormstory.social)

submitted 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) by neshura@bookwormstory.social to c/anime@lemmy.ml

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Check the modlog for proof, a discussion post about moving this instance to an instance that shan't be named now got removed for "linking to instance featuring pedo content".

Ironically that exact possibility was reason for the discussion in the first place so seeing it happen this quickly is a bit funny.

Not sure how best to go about linking to said instance since it seems to get your content removed. DM's would be the only solution I guess but not sure if those are checked as well.

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[-] lvxferre@lemmy.ml 20 points 11 months ago

For context, I encourage people to check this discussion in the "join Lemmy" site github. Have in mind that both of the Lemmy developers in that discussion are also admins of the lemmy.ml instance, and they clearly disagree if the instance in question should be considered as "hosting CSAM" or not.

[-] neshura@bookwormstory.social 13 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Yup, that was a bit of a shit show all around, made the rounds in the privacy communities as well and they were not pleased with the blatant censorship over there either. I guess stuff like this is why a lot of those people hang around dbzer0 now. To each interest an instance with fitting policies I guess.

The really sad part though is how it locks in users on lemmy.ml, you can't even really link to a safe haven because doing so is already grounds to get the post/comment removed

[-] Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 11 months ago

Pretty happy with my instance. :)
Tbf though I don't check the mod log.
Do you get a message if something happened with your post?

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[-] Itte@sh.itjust.works 14 points 11 months ago

I saw that post yesterday. It's true but it says "mods" for me:

Kinda crazy when its linked at the sidebar.

[-] ram@lemmy.ca 13 points 11 months ago

These actions are being taken by .ml site admin Arthur Besse / cypherpunks. There's nothing I can do as a mere community mod ^^

[-] dessalines@lemmy.ml 6 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

I can see that you downvoted besse's comment asking for volunteers with three different accounts of yours. This downvote manipulation viewer is already proving useful.

[-] rammy@lemmy.ml 3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

It was incidental tbh. I keep seeing it on different accounts and just click the appropriate button. If I'd actually wanted to manipulate it, I wouldn't have used 3 accounts named "ram" given kbin can see it, right? lmao

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[-] lvxferre@lemmy.ml 6 points 11 months ago

For me it says "admins". I don't know if it's because I'm a mod of a few other lemmy.ml comms, or if it's because of the different backend versions (SJW uses 0.18.5, lemmy.ml uses 0.19.1).

[-] neshura@bookwormstory.social 12 points 11 months ago

To add a bit more opinion: If you have an account on lemmy.ml itself and read/comment in either the Anime or Manga community I urgently recommend you migrate to a different instance. As far as I can tell the instance we shan't name here anymore for fear of admin abuse is still visible on join-lemmy.org after widespread complaints that removing an instance from there based on admin opinion alone is not exactly nice.

Best way to tell you how to find it is go to join-lemmy.org and look for an obviously anime themed instance in the "Art" category. Not sure if just saying that is grounds for removal though, depends on how trigger happy the admins here are.

[-] RightHandOfIkaros@lemmy.world 12 points 11 months ago

ml admins hate anime and don't want it on their instance. Simple as that.

[-] neshura@bookwormstory.social 13 points 11 months ago

I mean yeah, that's why the talk about moving the stragglers was even brought up. Keeping this anime community is neither in the best interest of the .ml admins nor in the best interest of the community.

[-] RightHandOfIkaros@lemmy.world 12 points 11 months ago

Its really unfortunate that the ml admins are the way they are. Too bad there cant be a mass mod message sent as a DM to subscribers telling them where to move to. That make sit tedious and can make those left behind feel lost. But I guess if enough move over and the anime community that is more social than this one gets bigger maybe itll be easier to find? Who knows.

I was only here because it was the first search result a while back.

[-] Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 11 months ago

Can't you pin a message in a board so if members would be informed if they choose to investigate why theres no content?

[-] nyan@lemmy.cafe 7 points 11 months ago

The problem is that one of the lemmy.ml admins has misconceptions about the instance that the admins of this community want to redirect traffic to, and said lemmy.ml admin has been deleting posts that so much as mention that server. That increases the difficulty of leaving a pinned pointer message.

[-] shani66@lemmy.comfysnug.space 2 points 11 months ago

I miss the animation age ghetto, tbh, this new Japanese hate is way more annoying.

[-] rickyrigatoni@lemm.ee 6 points 11 months ago

I just moved to lemm.ee from lemmy.ml because I was tired of the .ml admins constantly removing any minor criticism of BRICS-allied countries for "xenophobia". I think it would be a good idea to abandon the instance altogether, especially for topics such as world news.

Pretty weird move to develop a social media platform with a transparent modlog and still partake in censorship on your own instance.

[-] harry_balzac@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago

I've not heard many positive things about the ml instance. I ended up on the dot world because I didn't know that much about the fediverse. Hell, I still don't know that much.

[-] nyan@lemmy.cafe 5 points 11 months ago

Maybe link to a community which can then link to the actual target? Both beehaw and lemmy.world have general anime communities. Not a perfect solution, granted, but it might be a usable workaround.

[-] lvxferre@lemmy.ml 5 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Sorry for the double reply. Here's a practical idea: what if the mods of this comm contacted lemmy.ml's admins? Ideally doing two things:

Clarifying that the instance in question does not have child sexual abuse material, and requesting users to be allowed to link it.
Expressing desire to migrate !anime@lemmy.ml to the instance in question, and highlighting that this is convenient for both sides of the matter.

Among the admins I think that Nutomic would be the best to contact, given the github thread.

[-] neshura@bookwormstory.social 1 points 11 months ago

I highly doubt 1 will work given the reaction they had initially to claims it contains csam. 2 could potentially work though, maybe they'd have to write in a disclaimer of sorts to get the admins on board. If the link is the problem and not the wording just writing the instance name without a link would also work I guess.

@N3DSdude, @Nami, @ram, @rammy What are the mods' thoughts on this idea?

[-] CrushKillDestroySwag@hexbear.net 4 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Really showing your ass here by suggesting that you want to move to an instance with pedo content.

edit: undeleted for posterity

[-] neshura@bookwormstory.social 7 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

I see two options as to why you made that comment:

1: you just blindly believe what that admin said and have no opinion of your own, if that is the case I highly doubt a discussion is possible

2: you actually believe anime is csam in which case a discussion won't be possible either because we don't share the same definition of what csam is

As a closing note I find it hilarious that someone from hexbear of all places tries to ridicule people for trying to move to a safe space for their community

Edit: case in point against the csam claim is the fact that the instance in question got re-added to join-lemmy.org because the material that got it removed was not remotely seen as csam by the other maintaners

[-] CrushKillDestroySwag@hexbear.net 8 points 11 months ago

Well at first I assumed there was probably validity to what Dessalines said, because I consider them credible and I know enough about anime to know that there is a lot of csam that hides behind bullshit justifications. Even in this thread there's discussion of a show that blatantly tittilates the audience with underage characters that would absolutely qualify as csam in any other community except in the anime community, for some reason.

And then I went onto the anime lemmy everyone is surreptitiously talking about, and the literal first post I saw was a body pillow design featuring an underage character that is right on the line of being csam. It was the only example I saw in my brief look, and it didn't quite qualify, which is why I came back and deleted my comment.

I don't care about what the maintainers' view of the matter is, I make (and sometimes delete) my comments based on my own view of it.

[-] lvxferre@lemmy.ml 3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Even in this thread there’s discussion of a show that blatantly tittilates the audience with underage characters that would absolutely qualify as csam in any other community except in the anime community, for some reason.

Emphasis mine. If what you are saying is indeed correct (is it? dunno), this is a sign that the acronym "CSAM" was completely derailed.

Originally the expression "child sexual abuse material" was coined to avoid implications of consent brought by the word "pornography", and it boils down to "evidence of child sexual abuse". Consent and sexual abuse are legal notions that only apply to real people, not to fictional characters.

In the meantime, at worst the instance in question depicts images of clearly fictional characters in suggestive poses and/or clothing. It does not classify even as pornography, let alone sexual abuse. (Note that not even hentai depicting clearly adult characters is allowed in that instance.)

I don’t care about what the maintainers’ view of the matter is, I make (and sometimes delete) my comments based on my own view of it.

Given that this is a touchy subject, I think that this matter is better handled neither by the maintainers' views nor by our own views, but by 1) legal definitions of governments that might be relevant in the matter, and 2) explicit moral premises.

[-] neshura@bookwormstory.social 2 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

I may have an extremely warped opinion on this due to several reasons (imo mostly due to irl encounters with adult people that would put you on a watch list due to how young they look) but I think in the end it usually boils down to anime/manga just being terrible media for portraying how old a character actually is. The oldest anime character you can draw will still look significantly younger than a person you meet irl simply because the art style hides a lot of the age marks.

Edit: which is not to say that there isn't a lot of CSAM hiding, it's just imo the stuff that gets popular on SFW platforms is rarely that stuff

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