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Potentially silly question, but are different arms of Marxism relevant to different global situations? (lemmygrad.ml)
submitted 1 year ago by destructor_rph@lemmygrad.ml to c/asklemmygrad@lemmygrad.ml
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Is this a misguided idea? That different ideologies, such as 'vanilla' Marxist-Leninism are more applicable to more industrialized countries, or perhaps countries closer to the imperial core, while ideologies such as MLM are more applicable to the most imperialized, agragrian/feudal countries of the world?

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[-] Drewfro66@lemmygrad.ml 8 points 1 year ago

You're completely correct but, I think, looking at the situation the wrong way.

The entire point of the Marxist Dialectic is the ideology evolving to match its material conditions. There is no such thing as "Vanilla" Marxism or Marxism-Leninism, because Marxism includes Dialectic evolution. Maoism is Marxism. Trotskyism is Marxism. Marxism-Leninism is Marxism. Socialism with Chinese Characteristics is Marxism.

This is why you should be suspicious of anyone who identifies with a sub-tendency, especial "Hoxhaists".

[-] destructor_rph@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

That makes a lot of sense to me. I think my question is really coming from the modern day divide between MLs and MLMs. I'm still trying to understand what differentiates Marxism Leninism applied to its material conditions, versus a new stage of development in ML theory.

[-] IntoDaLagoon@lemmygrad.ml 7 points 1 year ago

It's a chicken/egg thing, the tendencies you mentioned tend to be more effective in their respective conditions because those are the conditions they evolved in.

[-] QueerCommie@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 1 year ago

Marxism Leninism can adapt to any material conditions with proper study. Mao Zedong thought is just more effective in the periphery because it developed in semi-feudal China. It is thus, the basis for socialism with Chinese characteristics. Other periphery comrades can adapt MZt to their conditions further. Dogmatic Leninism doesn’t work well anywhere.

[-] destructor_rph@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 1 year ago

Was what was done in the Soviet Union, at least during Lenin's leadership, considered to be Dogmatic Leninism? What seperates Dogmatic Leninism from Marxist-Leninism?

Also, would you say Marxism-Leninism-Maoism is an adaptation of these material conditions? Or a higher stage of development. What even differentiates the two?

[-] QueerCommie@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 1 year ago

Lenin’s ideology was not dogmatic as it was simply an adaptation of Marxism to the imperialist stage of capitalism and the Russian conditions. Dogmatism means the refusal to change. This would be people who think they can copy and paste the Russian or Chinese experience onto other situations. It’s also when people refuse to give up positions that have been proven false in practice and refuse to take up new developments (ex. Patsocs who hold onto reactionary nationalism and deny new Decolonial theory). MZT was an adaptation to China’s conditions, but it was not significantly different to ML and not all of its discoveries applied elsewhere. Thus there can be dogmatic “Maoism,” but there can also be better versions like that in India. There was a recent post on the difference between “dengism” and Maoism, so I suggest you look for that (search dengism in posts sorted by new).

[-] destructor_rph@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Where would you say MLM falls into this? I read that post and the dogmatic thing seems to make sense. But there are elements of MLM such as the Labor Aristocracy and such that I unabashedly agree with.

[-] QueerCommie@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Dogmatic MLMs are like those who think they can do a protracted people’s war in an industrialized country like Italy even though the tactic was specifically formulated for a largely peasant country, or those that hold up the words of Gonzalo like it’s the Bible. Honestly, a principled MLM shouldn’t be much different than a principled ML. Both need to study Mao, and both need to study material conditions. Of course there are good aspects of MLM, we should integrate them, I just don’t see why they need their own tendency name.

[-] destructor_rph@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Cool, I think that's the same conclusion I've come to aswell. Haven't been able to put words to it that well though. What are your thoughts on Gonzalo in general?

[-] QueerCommie@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 1 year ago

I don’t know enough about Guzman to be certain, but what I know isn’t exactly positive. Based on the Badempanada video he seems pretty bad. Killing dogs and placing using them to bring attention to your denouncement of Deng Xiaoping, throwing scalding water on babies, and killing indigenous people are all definitely red flags. However, BE has had some pretty bad takes so I will take what he said with a grain of salt. On one hand I’ve heard the left’s image has been tarnished in Peru by him and current revolutionaries don’t associate with his group, on the other hand he almost led a successful revolution. I heard recently he was inspired by seeing the cultural revolution in China and even that I don’t know what to think of. I’ve heard many Chinese socialists have since denounced it and it could have inspired his adventurism, but that practice in Crit and self-crit might be part of why China’s still standing. I honestly need to hear it from the Maoist side before I’m absolutely sure.

[-] destructor_rph@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 1 year ago

Will do, thank you!

this post was submitted on 24 Jul 2023
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